Black Bear hunting load question

[phoenix113]

Hunting bear in my area has not been much of an option here in N.W. Georgia as bear populations have been rather slim until now. I have been out for the past couple of weeks and have found an area that apparently has several bears in it based on the scat findings that I have came across. So this fall I plan on trying to take my first black bear ever with my New Englander. My question is this”¦ is using a 177 grain .50 caliber roundball, with 65 grains of Pyrodex going to be enough to effectively take a Black Bear at no further than 50 yards. I know that if the shot is in the right place that that is half the battle. I just want to know if I need to up my powder load more than it already is?

 

[roundball]

So this fall I plan on trying to take my first black bear ever with my New Englander. My question is this”¦ is using a 177 grain .50 caliber roundball, with 65 grains of Pyrodex going to be enough to effectively take a Black Bear at no further than 50 yards. I know that if the shot is in the right place that that is half the battle. I just want to know if I need to up my powder load more than it already is?

You're asking for opinions, and I'll be glad to give you mine...I would not go after deer, much less bear, with a light powder charge like that.
I think most black bears are similar to a whitetail as far as the location of their vitals...but on average, would weigh more than the a typical Eastern Whitetail, more muscle mass, etc.
And I agree that a .490" precisely through the heart or both lungs will take a black bear of course...but getting it in and through there is the issue. In addition, what looks like 50yds in low light of the woods under hunting conditions, might really be 75yds.

T/C's own PRB load data chart shows a range of powder charges from 50-110grns Goex 2F so 65grns is pretty much an entry level, tin can pinking load, paper target range load, etc.
But for big game I personally believe that a max/near-max powder charge is more appropriate, and in fact all my NC deer killed with a .50cal have been with 90grns Goex 3F. ( = 100grns Goex 2F )...I just don't see any incentive / benefit of hadicapping myself with a lightweight powder charge when there's no down side to using a more robust powerful charge.

My approach is if I'm going after big game and I'm going to get one shot, there's no reason NOT to use a stout powder charge...particularly if the deer / bear should begin to turn just as the sear breaks and by the time the ball gets there a full shoulder/bone has gotten in the way.
If it's more than you need, its not a problem, but if you take a shot with LESS then is required for that particular shot...well, there's no "do-overs".

Just my .02 cents...Good luck

 

[phoenix113]

That’s exactly what I am wanting. I have no experience hunting bear at all, and am glad to get your opinions. My New Englander likes that load and prints just over an inch at 50 yards with it. I have tried up to 75 grains but it tends to open up at 50 to around 2 or 3 inches with that load. Of course that is acceptable grouping for hunting but the last thing I want to do is wound a bear instead of a quick humane kill.

 

[Spikebuck]

:thumbsup: Agreed 100% on all points. Other than if the gun just doesn't like and will not shoot accurately with a higher load, there is no downside that I can see and would much prefer "too much" rather than too little. Frankly, if I had a gun that wouldn't shoot the "bigger" loads, I'd use a different gun for hunting that did like them.

 

[Mad Professor]

I agree don't use a squibb charge when hunting

Do your patches look much different with the stouter charge?

Maybe a thicker patch and/or OPW would help? That or different size ball and patch combo?

You've got a few months to work on things and working up a good hunting load will give you practice and confidence. :thumbsup:

 

[oletymepreacher]

"Loaded for bear' is an old saying. It means a stout load. I use 100 grs. of GOEX 3F when hunting big game. I read somewhere that Jim Bridger used 100 grs. when a bear showed up. Don't know if that is true or not, but this load is a good hunting load in my 50's and 54's.

Most rifles have more than one accuracy sweet spot vs. amount of powder. I'd experiment with different powders, balls, charges, patches until a more powerful load is accurate enough for you.

Even a small bear can eat a human being for lunch.

Hope you get one.

 

[roundball]

And frankly, you don't need single ragged hole, bench rest kind of accuracy for big game hunting...trajectory & power are important.

I'd much rather have the flatter trajectory and increased power with a 3-4" group at 100yds, than drop back to a low power load to try and get a 2-3" group at 100yds.

If you can consistently hit a grapefruit, or put them inside a common 6" paper dessert plate at 100yds with a stout load under hunting conditions / make shift rests, you'll be dragging him out every time...

 

[hanshi]

I agree with the others. Sixty five grains of 3F in a .50 is a pretty "wienie" load even for deer. I use to use 100grns of 3F in my .50s but have decided to drop down on that a bit for this season.

 

[Trench]

I've killed deer with "weenie" loads of 60gr of 2F with no problem. However, even a recoil wimp like myself would buck-up and find a hotter charge that was also accurate for bear.

 

[wattlebuster]

Old saying is- Id rather have it an not need it as need it an not have it. Maybe a stout load of 100 grn is just a tad much but maybe 65 grns aint enough. Which would you rather have? :hmm:

 

[nchawkeye]

Have you tried conicals???

80grs behind a good conical would be a plenty...

 

[Mort Scott]

As this is your first bear hunt I highly reccomend you do some resurch on shot placement. and most important is bear anatomy they are tuff criters. Heart location is not the same as deer, large bones and hair might give you a diffrent picture than you are use to . Good luck.

 

[buttonbuck]

I have never hunted bear but I always figured them to be shot fairly close up from a stand or blind. If I had a choice I would use a 54 or larger caliber. If I only had a 50 cal I would go with a conical or at least 90 grains w/prb.

 

[phoenix113]

Thanks for all your replys, I have rethunk the whole thing and have decided to go with T/C maxi hunters and a good 80 to 90 grains of powder.

 

[roundball]

Heart is down low, just inside the elbow, between the two lower lobes of the lungs, similar to deer.

 

[rabjr]

I'd be wanting to get everything I could with a hunting load. Low to mid range target loads just never make sense to me for a hunting gun.

My uncle travels every year to New Brunswick (this month) for spring bear. Usually archery but I built him a .58 flintlock that he has taken bear with up there using 100 gr of 3F under a .570 ball which really thumps them good. Personally I wouldn't use a .50 ball on bear but if it was all I had, I would be driving it with at the very least 90 gr of powder...

This is what a .58 ball can do driven through both shoulders/lungs.

WARNING!! Video shows the death of a bear, view at your own discretion!
http://www.nimrodsplace.com/video/Unclesbear08.wmv

 

[Kapow]

Be careful with that bullet. Make sure you have tested it on something. In my experience bears are pretty soft and easy to kill and their vitals are quite exposed. How many arrows do you see pass through a bear sideways on hunting videos? Nearly all of them.

I believe a .50 cal roundball with at least 80gn powder behind it will be more than enough especially if you are hunting from a stand and restrict your shots to broadside. Yeah I know I am on the other side of the world but I have hunted them and with some very cluey guides so I am not completely ignorant (just partially).

 

[eaglesnester]

I live in the northern interior of B.C. Canada and we have bears a-plenty. The wife and I do not walk our dogs unless we take a large can of bear spray along. Anyway to answer your question, I have found bears can be tough to put down. I have hunted them for the last 5 years and I have two kills. Both were harvested with modern firearms, one with a 308 Norma and one with a 300 Weatherby and a 190 grain Burger Bullet.If I were going with a charcoal burner (I own and shoot 2 in 50 caliber, 1 flinter and one cap lock hawken) for bear it would be with at least 100gr 2f and a 54 caliber with a heavy Maxi Ball for deep penetration and knock down. All bears including the venerable blackie have dense tough muscle tissue and dense heavy bone. You need to get through all that stuff to get to the vitals so you can make the quickest kill possible. As others have posted here leave the light loads for punching paper. Go loaded for bear as the saying goes.

 

[Bob J]

phoenix113 - you say that your rifle shoots well with 60 grains, then opens up a bit with 75. It's not uncommon for some rifles to have tight groups at a lower charge, then tighten up again with more powder (and open up in-between). This seems to be common with the 1:48 twist barrels. You may find a second "sweet spot" somewhere above 75. Try shooting three to five shot groups at 80, 85, 90 (up to the maximum allowed by your mfg. but I wouldn't go over 100).

 

[Ron_T.]

I shoot two different older CVA .50 caliber percussion cap rifles, but hunt with the lighter one... a CVA Hawken Carbine with a .24-inch barrel weighing only 6½ pounds.

I've shot up to 90 grains of Swiss FFFg behind a swagged Hornady .50 caliber patched ball and the recoil wasn't so bad... and so, unless your New Englander rifle isn't strong enough for the larger loads, I'd recommend you increase your bear hunting load to at least 80 grains or more even though you don't intend to shoot further than 50 yards.

In fact, even with 80 grains or so, a limit of 50 yards isn't a bad idea with a .50 caliber. If I were hunting bear, I'd opt for at least a .54 caliber rifle although a .50 caliber rifle will take bear if the shot is put in the RIGHT place.

As mentioned by others, you don't need a load that will group at just 1-inch to kill big game at 50 yards... s 2-3 inch group is plenty good and will do the job since the kill zones on deer or bear are at least 8 to 10 inches in diameter depending on the size of the game.

Better too much of a load than not enough... no?

GOOD LUCK on your bear hunting and make GOOD smoke... :thumbsup:


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.