Black powder vs new versions???

[Rifleman1776]

I only wish they'd come up with a formula that will work in flintlocks

They did. :shocked2:
It's called black powder.

 

[jamesthomas]

I'll pass, That Alliance Black MZ is around 31+dollars a pound :shocked2: NO THANK YOU. Grafs has it at around 22.00 a pound but if you have to order it to get that price why not go ahead an order the real thing at around $15.00 a pound?.

 

[BrownBear]

Heck, $31 a pound is cheap locally. Trouble is, some of us have almost no means to order, but can walk in and buy the subs from local stores. Ergo....

 

[stone knife]

I just bought enough of the real deal to last me quite a while :grin:

 

[Rokon]

The value of Black MZ is simply that it's the best substitute we currently have for BP and for those who can't get BP or may not be able to get BP sometime in the future,it's a real deal plus it does have applications to flintlocks without a priming charge of BP.

 

[cynthialee]

I am interested in trying it out. I will try and remember to look for some next time I buy shooting supplies.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

When an article on Black MZ appeared in MuzzleBlasts, I enquired about getting some to time. I was sent a priming version that was a finer grind. This was supposed to allow better ignition in a flintlock pan. The author said that while he hadn't fired a flintlock in a while, he thought if worked ok.

I did not do any timing regarding ignition in the barrel. I only timed it in pan ignition tests. I felt that if it ignited well in the pan, it had possibilities in the barrel.

The average times were very slow with a few failed ignitions. The average for 10 trials was .140 seconds. As a comparison Null B runs in the .040 range. Goex cannon grade averages .080 seconds. A shooter used to Null B will be disappointed. Priming with Goex Cannon is almost twice as fast as MZ.

Again, bear in mind that this was a limited test that only included pan testing. You may find a barrel ignition satisfactory; I doubt it though. I need to add that this sample was obtained before the product was purchased by Alliant if I remember correctly.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[cschibi]

Black MZ... what is this I have never heard of it?

Respectively,

 

[zymurgeist]

The perchlorates aren't much of a corrosion problem. It's the sulfur in both black powder and pyrodex. Either way if you clean your equipment properly and it's not an issue no matter what you use.

 

[Rokon]

Pletch--What you tested was a product called BLACK MAG, not Alliant's Black MZ.

Black Mag and Black MZ are two totally different products.

Alliant had entered into a licensing agreement with Black Mag but then Black Mag went up in smoke and Alliant had to develop their own product since the formula to Black Mag was tied up in the corporate dissolution of the Black Mag company.

I tried Black Mag's so-called "priming powder." It was inefficient and fouled the flint terribly with 2 or 3 shots. Useless.

Black MZ is a good propellant.
It is not and never has been advertised as a priming powder.

I don't think we're here to DEFEND BP. I love it,
but Black MZ is as good as it gets when a shooter can't obtain BP and looks for a less-corrosive substitute.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

black MZ is actually american pioneer powder, it works in a flinter but no where near as fast as the real stuff + it wont work in the pan. I think hes getting the 2 confused. black mag - black mz.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Pletch--What you tested was a product called BLACK MAG, not Alliant's Black MZ.

Black Mag and Black MZ are two totally different products.

Alliant had entered into a licensing agreement with Black Mag but then Black Mag went up in smoke and Alliant had to develop their own product since the formula to Black Mag was tied up in the corporate dissolution of the Black Mag company.

I tried Black Mag's so-called "priming powder." It was inefficient and fouled the flint terribly with 2 or 3 shots. Useless.

Black MZ is a good propellant.
It is not and never has been advertised as a priming powder.

I don't think we're here to DEFEND BP. I love it,
but Black MZ is as good as it gets when a shooter can't obtain BP and looks for a less-corrosive substitute.

I checked my package and believe you are correct. The product I tested is called BlackMag Flash. In one place on the package is referred to as BlackMag XP - formulated for use in a flint pan.

The product was from BlackMag Industries - definitely produced before Alliant came into the picture. The similarity in names makes me surprised that there isn't a trademark problem from name confusion.

That means my test is not from any Alliant material. It would be interesting to run the same test with Alliant's Black MZ. I would hope that it would test better than BlackMag Flash. Do you know if there is any similarity in their formulation?

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Kentuckywindage]

none, its american pioneer powder thats screen more.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

The perchlorates aren't much of a corrosion problem. It's the sulfur in both black powder and pyrodex. Either way if you clean your equipment properly and it's not an issue no matter what you use.

That's contrary to the Mad Monk's findings. Going from memory:
Potassium sulphate in the fouling is countered by the greater amount of alkaline potassium carbonate, and any corrosion that they do produce tends to uniform surface rust, and not terribly aggressive.
Corrosion from any chloride in the fouling, usually potassium chloride, tends to be localized and aggressive, producing or aggravating pits fairly quickly.

I'm fairly sure he discusses the details in one of the articles on the Laflin & Rand site, but I don't have time to look right now.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Rifleman1776]

So many new products on the market it has gotten confusing.
I don't keep up with all the synthetic (fake) powders out there.
There are some powder brands I don't even know if they are real bp or fake stuff. :idunno:
There are new brands of bp we are not all familiar with.
It would be real handy if someone in the know would give charts of the brands of real bp on the market and a chart of the synthetics.

 

[Little Wattsy]

For what its worth I saw Pyrodex R and P on the shelf at Bi-Mart yesterday at $14.99 a can....

 

[Brian6396]

I've been calling my local gun shops and only one so far deals in BP supplies but only sells a powder sub he called pistol pete.
Anyone know about pistol pete?