nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Cooner, what do you use for patching???
And where do you obtain??
And where do you obtain??
Blown Patches
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nchawkeye
58 Cal.
You can also use a bit of hornets nesting between the powder and ball to help protect the patch material, or use a lubed felt wad..
I don't see too many hornets nests here, ours mostly seem to nest in the ground, near where I hunt. They then dare you to step too close to their hole, and it's not a challenge to take up! :surrender:
I've only seen one in a tree here, it was right before a hurricane, and I think they were looking to get low to the ground, in a big tree. They chose the magnolia in the back yard. Being young and dumb, we exterminated the nest at maximum range with 10 gauge duck loads, and ran for all we were worth. What a waste of a good nest! :redface:
I've only seen one in a tree here, it was right before a hurricane, and I think they were looking to get low to the ground, in a big tree. They chose the magnolia in the back yard. Being young and dumb, we exterminated the nest at maximum range with 10 gauge duck loads, and ran for all we were worth. What a waste of a good nest! :redface:
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
If you can't find hornets, use wasps...I'm from Gates County, we have them in the barn, so you should have them as well...
If you used a wad, or nest over the charge, can you then more accurately shoot maximum loads without concern of blowout?
Also, we have a lot more wasp's nests than hornet's nests, the ones in the eaves of the house or shop, shaped like honey comb, made of tough paper. Will these work just as well? Similar paper, different shape... :hmm:
Also, we have a lot more wasp's nests than hornet's nests, the ones in the eaves of the house or shop, shaped like honey comb, made of tough paper. Will these work just as well? Similar paper, different shape... :hmm:
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I use a real tight weave cotton duck canvas. I buy it from the Utrecht Linens. It is a art supply store. Raw unprimed canvas. You can also buy this cotton canvas from tent makers or awning makers. Some places will send you sample swatches so you can decide what thickness and weave you want. In these swatch samples you will find linen offered as well. I use Bore butter for the lube.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Yep, those wasps nests are what I use, as well as wads or even another lubed patch between the powder and ball, anything to act like a insulator...I have a custom .54 that just doesn't like heavy powder charges without some kind of wad...My main hunting load is 80 grains of FFF, but I have shot as high as 125 grains in it,my powder charge has been going down through the years, I may end up with 60-70 grains or so...Another 'fix" for burned patches is to use 2-.010[url] patches...In[/url] addition in my gun this is a problem with the 1st shot out of a clean barrel, after it fowls up,I can load with a dirty barrel and a .015 patch (instead of .018 or .020)...
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rabbit03
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Hello Paul.
I hate to gang up on you too but what you said:
In the Civil War, a paper cartridge .54-50 was used to good effect. That is a .54 caliber barrel, with 50 grain of powder behind a conical bullet.
Wasn't the discussion about roundballs? Conicals are a little different with the same powder.
rabbit03
I hate to gang up on you too but what you said:
In the Civil War, a paper cartridge .54-50 was used to good effect. That is a .54 caliber barrel, with 50 grain of powder behind a conical bullet.
Wasn't the discussion about roundballs? Conicals are a little different with the same powder.
rabbit03
rabbit03
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Hello Billk,
your question has already been answered by cooner54. You need to get a tighter woven cotton fabric and if I were you I would also jump up to a .535 but that is just my preference.
Do not go to a smaller ball as has been suggested. I shoot heavy loads from my .58 with a .575 ball and the patches stay in good shape with no burn through. And as far as accuracy goes (providing that is what you want) I can assure you they will be accurate loads with this thicker patching.
The wasp nest or bee nest thing has already been beaten to death on here with another topic. To me and other shooters on here concerned with other than minute of deer accuracy, to get the BEST accuracy they can get from a muzzle loader you need to forget about wasp nest and all the other voodoo stuff. Why go through all the added effort to find something to put between the powder and patch, when all you really need to do is address the problem correctly and fix it!
rabbit03
your question has already been answered by cooner54. You need to get a tighter woven cotton fabric and if I were you I would also jump up to a .535 but that is just my preference.
Do not go to a smaller ball as has been suggested. I shoot heavy loads from my .58 with a .575 ball and the patches stay in good shape with no burn through. And as far as accuracy goes (providing that is what you want) I can assure you they will be accurate loads with this thicker patching.
The wasp nest or bee nest thing has already been beaten to death on here with another topic. To me and other shooters on here concerned with other than minute of deer accuracy, to get the BEST accuracy they can get from a muzzle loader you need to forget about wasp nest and all the other voodoo stuff. Why go through all the added effort to find something to put between the powder and patch, when all you really need to do is address the problem correctly and fix it!
rabbit03
rabbit03
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Paul said:
The teflon also protects the patch from burning, allowing the use of thinner patches.
And he is correct, however we mostly use the teflon coated ducking because of the ease in which we can load the tighter patched ball combos, and also that it is alot less messy at the end of a days shooting when you are shooting a hundred or more rounds daily. I might also add to that, that we are using moslty .020 thickness ducking with the teflon, not sure if that is thin by his standard though! We use this thicker patching in order to fill the deeper grooved rifling too in the roundball barrels.
What Paul failed to mention is that the same results can be attained with untreated ducking and the proper lubrication. It is not just the teflon that makes it burn proof. It is rather the tightly patched ball and the proper weave and thickness of the patching that really does the trick.
rabbit03
The teflon also protects the patch from burning, allowing the use of thinner patches.
And he is correct, however we mostly use the teflon coated ducking because of the ease in which we can load the tighter patched ball combos, and also that it is alot less messy at the end of a days shooting when you are shooting a hundred or more rounds daily. I might also add to that, that we are using moslty .020 thickness ducking with the teflon, not sure if that is thin by his standard though! We use this thicker patching in order to fill the deeper grooved rifling too in the roundball barrels.
What Paul failed to mention is that the same results can be attained with untreated ducking and the proper lubrication. It is not just the teflon that makes it burn proof. It is rather the tightly patched ball and the proper weave and thickness of the patching that really does the trick.
rabbit03
Blizzard of '93
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I'm going to guess that woodsmen of the early pilgrims kept an eye peeled for wasps-hornets nests to use as patching for the RB's in their smoothbores. paper of any kind was scarce and so was cloth. I saw a hornets nest on the Appalachain Trail at Indian Grave gap on the NC-Tenn. line that was huge, wish I had had a camera with me. I'm telling ya' it was near the size of a galvanized trash can. I was up to a little devilment so I took hold of a fallen limb, wrapped a paper towel around it, dunked it my motorcycle gas tank and lit it then stuck it onto the nest (it was right at dark) and set it afire - what a blaze and cloud of Hornets ( I hauled aways off) Yahooooo!!
rabbit03
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Hi Billk give me just a minute and I will pull up the address. I can also send you some samples like I have some of the othe fellows on here if you like. Send me a PM if you would like for me to send you some at my expense no problem. And I don't own any stock or get compensated in any way for this from the folks that own it.
rabbit03
rabbit03
rabbit03
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Not sure if this will work or not but I will try and attach one of the conversations we had a while back on the subject of teflon.
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum...77/post/426860/hl/teflon/fromsearch/1/#426860[/url]
rabbit03
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum...77/post/426860/hl/teflon/fromsearch/1/#426860[/url]
rabbit03
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rabbit03
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Hello again Billk,
You do not have to lubricate it at all! All we do is tear it into whatever size strips you would need to patch your particular caliber and then we cut it at the muzzle. My strips are usually about an 1 1/2 inches wide for the 58caliber.
HILL COUNTRY CREATIONS
2880 MAIL ROUTE ROAD
FISCHER, TX.
78623
(830) 935-2801 or [email protected]
rabbit03 :thumbsup:
You do not have to lubricate it at all! All we do is tear it into whatever size strips you would need to patch your particular caliber and then we cut it at the muzzle. My strips are usually about an 1 1/2 inches wide for the 58caliber.
HILL COUNTRY CREATIONS
2880 MAIL ROUTE ROAD
FISCHER, TX.
78623
(830) 935-2801 or [email protected]
rabbit03 :thumbsup:
paulvallandigham
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Rabbit: YOu too are missing the point I was trying to make. That conical .54 bullet with the 50 grains of FFg(?) behind had lots of power. A round ball, which is lighter, would also go faster, and inside 100 yds, prove to be just as lethal. I do not believe that they felt that a 50 grain charge of powder under a .54 caliber ball or bullet was being underloaded. Recall also that not too many years later, in 1873, Colt and Winchester came out with the .44-40 cartridge, which used a .429 bullet, and 40 grains of powder. In the carbines and rifles, that was considered more than adequate for taking game, including ELK.
rabbit03
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Paul I guess our tracks are not meeting in Promentory Utah!
One can not compare the effect of a conical to a roundball in any discussion except to note that they are very different from each other. I understand that the roundball would be moving much faster with the same charge behind the slug but that is just one of the differences. The slug say for instance in a musket or a Whitworth or a Springfiled or any rifled slug will travel over a mile with the 60 or so gains using a 400-500 grn slug. So any comparison to a slug vs a roundball for this discussion should not be made. However the differences of each could be noted I guess but the topic was about roundballs and not conicals! There is just too big of a difference in how say 50 or 60 grns of black powder effects a 500grn bullet vs the 280 or whatever grn roundball to be able to make any comparisons at all.
You said:
In the Civil War, a paper cartridge .54-50 was used to good effect. That is a .54 caliber barrel, with 50 grain of powder behind a conical bullet.
The physical properties of a conical bullet changes all of the math for the roundball discussions here. A conical will travel through maybe 4 deer lined up where a roundball using the same powder as you suggest will not. There is a huge difference in the two different projectiles, enough that the conical should not even enter into this discussion.
rabbit03
One can not compare the effect of a conical to a roundball in any discussion except to note that they are very different from each other. I understand that the roundball would be moving much faster with the same charge behind the slug but that is just one of the differences. The slug say for instance in a musket or a Whitworth or a Springfiled or any rifled slug will travel over a mile with the 60 or so gains using a 400-500 grn slug. So any comparison to a slug vs a roundball for this discussion should not be made. However the differences of each could be noted I guess but the topic was about roundballs and not conicals! There is just too big of a difference in how say 50 or 60 grns of black powder effects a 500grn bullet vs the 280 or whatever grn roundball to be able to make any comparisons at all.
You said:
In the Civil War, a paper cartridge .54-50 was used to good effect. That is a .54 caliber barrel, with 50 grain of powder behind a conical bullet.
The physical properties of a conical bullet changes all of the math for the roundball discussions here. A conical will travel through maybe 4 deer lined up where a roundball using the same powder as you suggest will not. There is a huge difference in the two different projectiles, enough that the conical should not even enter into this discussion.
rabbit03
