Boy Scouts Building Rifles - Need Kit Suggestions

[jode]

I have a group of older scouts (14-16 years of age) that are interested in building / shooting blackpowder rifles. I went online to a couple websites and was surprised that the rifle building kits seem to cost more than I could buy a cheapo muzzleloader down at the local Wal-mart. It got me to wondering if I am not looking in the right places. DO any of you have any suggestions for where I might be able to find a really cheap muzzleloader kit? Maybe something less than $150 or so? Any suggestions welcome...these guys are going to have to come up with the funding on their own (most of them without regular employment) so the cost really is the primary factor here. I know that "you get what you pay for" but in this case, this is the perfect case for a "starter" kit for these guys.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Have you thought about contacting your local Cabela's? See if they would be willing to either sponsor the project, or give you a cut rate on a bulk order. :hmm:

Best of luck!

 

[hawkthrower]

I am sorry to be the one to say this but just the lock will cost you around the 150 you quoted. The last time I saw a kit for under $300 was probably twenty five years ago.

 

[hawkthrower]

Well I did a little checking and the cheapest thing I could find was a traditions half stock, flint 50 cal. For $365 from Dixie gun works. It would actually be a nice little rifle when it's finished.
Ron

 

[jode]

Wow. What a bummer. I guess we'll look into donations and bulk discounts.

Of course, one of the boys actually got all excited about actually building these all the way up from scratch. I would have no clue how that could even be done. Is there even a way to do that? Hate to not be able to pull this together.

 

[satx78247]

As a Scouter, who has done a similar project for Explorer posts, may I suggest that you contact institutions that donate to the BSA in your council?

In my case, FIRST GUARANTY BOND BANK paid for 100% of the nearly 6,000.oo cost of the kits.
(Be SURE to ask for PLENTY of $$$$$$$, as FGBB's Board of Directors asked me, afterward, why I didn't ask for TWICE as much. =====> Fyi, I never made that DUMB mistake again, when doing Scouting projects for our district/council/camp!!!)

Note: New car dealers, local real estate brokers & local insurance agencies are GOOD to ask for $$$$$ and in my experience usually say YES to requests for money for Scouting projects.

just my OPINION, satx

 

[Rifleman1776]

Wow. What a bummer. I guess we'll look into donations and bulk discounts.

Of course, one of the boys actually got all excited about actually building these all the way up from scratch. I would have no clue how that could even be done. Is there even a way to do that? Hate to not be able to pull this together.

Well....actually all guns are built from scratch. With some kits the factory starts the process from mining and casting parts and cutting down the trees, and some of the work is done for the final builder to finish.
I would really hate to discourage Boy Scouts from this kind of learning experience. But building from a really cheap kit would almost be akin to leaving them in a wilderness to starve. Good results cannot be expected. Methinks a good film or a demo from a good builder would be more valuable. And, maybe the parents of one or two of the boys will actually be able to afford a good parts kit and help the kid end up with a real ml rifle he can be proud of and use for life.

 

[hawkthrower]

Satx ,thanks for chiming in there. Maybe they can get something done with donations.

 

[satx78247]

NO PROBLEM. - I was a member of the Council's Executive Board for 5 years, the Council's Camping & Activities Chair for 4 more & the District Commissioner for 3 years.
(In a relatively poor council like ours, all the adult leadership, above pack/troop/post level, are "fund-raisers".)

We were a Scouting family for > 3 decades.
(There are many people who still, 25 years later, who still call my mother, "The Den Mother Superior", as she "coached" nearly more new Den Leaders than I can count.)

yours, satx

 

[jode]

Wow, great tips Satx! That is surely heartening. I'm new the the leadership role in scouting and didn't know that people supported scouting in such ways. Any tips on the best way to find out who these organizations are that are already donating to the council?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Have you contacted traditions or maybe even Deer Creek. Paul Vallandingham had an in with a stock carving company. I never got the name before he passed.

I think with some quantity charitable discounts, your price range could be put together. It would be more put together work but doable.
Also check with Gun Parts inc. They occasionally have good discounts on barrels etc.

 

[jode]

Interesting. If the donations idea doesn't pan out, it looks like the cost of the barrel itself could easily be in the price range I was thinking of. Then, maybe we could use local apple branches to make the stocks and then all that is left is the trigger mechanism. I have a welder and I'm pretty handy, I wonder if we could make a SUPER-simple trigger mechanism and then literally build them up from the barrel. It would be more work for a bunch of first timers, but I wonder if we could pull it off.

 

[satx78247]

SURE. = Ask your troop's IR (Institutional Representative), DC (District Commissioner), Lodge Advisor of the local Order of the Arrow Lodge and/or your DE (District Executive) for a list.

ANY of them should (and I'm guessing WILL - ALL of them SHOULD have that info!!) know.
(After more than a Century, the BSA has gotten really good at keeping records of systematic donors.)

HINT that's never failed me more than one time a day: Approach the local new car dealers with the following proposal = How would you like to sponsor our Boy Scout Troop for ONE DOLLAR a DAY?
(Make sure to have a NICE/RUSTIC plaque made up that says EVERY DAY SCOUTER "to show & tell", as a sample to show the owner of the dealership. - Do NOT talk to anyone else BUT the OWNER(s).)
Then when you get a "YES":
1. Have a PERSONALIZED plaque made up with the OWNER & DEALER NAME.
2. Have at least 3-4 Boy Scouts (in uniform) deliver the plaque to the owner. - CALL FIRST & make an appointment.
(I do that by calling the owner's secretary & say that HIS Boy Scouts want to come and thank the owner, personally. - NOBODY turns that opportunity down! MANY will have a camera & have photos made of the Scouts.)
3. 30 days later, have the institution's leader (for a church/synagogue, the pastor/priest/rabbi) send a personal THANK YOU LETTER on the institution's stationary. - I also had the Scoutmaster send a letter, too.
4. Place the owner on the Troop Newsletter mailing list.
(Your troop DOES have a newsletter, written by the BOYS, don't you?)
4. 60 days before the end of the year, go by & tell the owner "how much your help has been to our Scouts. Can we count on you to renew your EVERY DAY SCOUTER sponsorship?"
(When they agree, do the SAME things again to THANK them & remind them of your Scouts!)
5. After the 3rd year, you have a committed FINANCIAL SPONSOR. DO something NICE for the owner/dealership, like inviting him/her to your COURT OF HONOR, SUMMER CAMP week and/or ANNUAL DINNER.
(Introduce the owner to the Scouts & their parents & tell everyone how much that the unit has been helped by their generosity!!!)

The above is called: Capture, care & feeding of a SPONSOR.
(A typical medium-large pack/troop/post NEEDS about FIVE SPONSORS to do minimally well, long-term. - 5 "Every Day Scouters" is an extra 1,825.oo to the unit & "that ain't chicken-feed".)
Note: Our troop has an average of 12 EVERY DAY SCOUTERS for a total of 4,380.oo per year.
(And we are ALWAYS looking for more.)

just my opinions, satx

 

[TNGhost]

jode, I was a scoutmaster for several years and I have to agree with the guys about sponsors(however they know a heck of a lot more than me about it). Around here, even though it is a small population area and the economy is not the greatest, there was always someone willing to step up and sponsor a worthwhile project.

I think the Traditions Kentucky Rifle kit may be kind of what your looking for. Sportsman's Guide lists them online in stock @ $269.00 right now.
Cheaper than Dirt has them for $255.00
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/50-cal-kentucky-rifle-kit?a=394783
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/54336

The fellow who suggested contacting Traditions was right on. If you could find a local sponsor to hook up with them I bet you could get to your target amount.

You are to be commended for putting the effort into this . This is the kind of thing that gets, and keeps, kids interested in scouting, not to mention making future firearms enthusiasts. We sorely need both right now.

 

[davidmc62]

Approach any of the local gun stores also. SATX is right, most business are very willing to help scouting. We have a good gun shop in Austin that has donated supplies to BSA shooting sports programs often. I have heard but not confirmed that Cabelas is VERY pro scouting. You may want to approach them if you have a store in the area.
You can also approach the gun manufactures themselves, doesnt hurt to ask. CHeck the NRA, NMLRA for grant oportunities for shooting sports help. I know the NRA is very proactive to youth/scouting shooting sports.

 

[satx78247]

EXACTLY. - Fyi, my "home council" is large in area but relatively poor & sparsely settled.
(We have exactly ONE gun-shop, of any size, in our district & our biggest town is about 12,000 population. = Our troop is in a town of about 6,000 people & these days QUITE POOR.)

That's WHY I concentrate our fund-raising on Real estate brokers, insurance agencies, banks & new car dealers, as ALL of the towns over 2,000 population have at least one of each.

Note: Our troop has TWO motels that PAY FOR our "low income" Scouts uniforms.
(About half of our "new recruits" are from families with a less than 1,000.oo a month income.)
These days, I just send the new Scouts to the local BSA supply store & the store BILLS the motel, as they have done this service for us for over 15 years.
(We REQUIRE each Scout & their parent/guardian to send a THANK YOU note to the motel.)
Btw, we also "re-cycle" uniforms, as boys grow out of them yearly. = We call them: EXPERIENCED uniforms.

Remember: A Scout is TRUSTWORTHY, LOYAL, HELPFUL, FRIENDLY, COURTEOUS, KIND, OBEDIENT, CHEERFUL, THRIFTY, BRAVE, CLEAN & REVERENT.

just my opinions, satx

 

[Artificer]

Satx,

As a prior Assistant Scoutmaster, I applaud each and very person who gets involved with the BSA.

Advice like you have given in this thread is almost priceless and very much appreciated. You have shown one of the greatest points of the Scout Laws and that is Loyalty. Bless you, as I'm sure others will benefit greatly if they follow your advice.

Gus

 

[satx78247]

I'm nobody special. - These days, I'm just one of 6 volunteer ASST SM for Troop 101. - As you doubtless guessed, my "job" is fundraising.
(IF anything that has been said here is of help to any new Scouter, I'm pleased "clear down to the ground".)

yours, satx

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I hope your donations comes through, but also call the makers or suppliers to request a volume/charity discount. You may be surprised.


My first flint lock rifle was a cheap dixie lock and a Gun Parts Inc. barrel. the trigger and some other parts were fashioned from materials scavenged from a junked baler. I traced the trigger from my CVA flint pistol and cut on from a piece of 1/8 steel strap. The ram rod thimbles were pieces of brass tubing. CHuck Dixon's book about rifle building showed me how to fashion most of the parts. My brother still hunts with that gun. I did cut the stock out of a plank. If you can round up precarved stocks, the rest may fall into place without much difficulty.

 

[satx78247]

Regardless of how many DONORS & SPONSORS that you recruit, ASK for VOLUME DISCOUNTS for SCOUTING. - Zimmerstutzen is 100% CORRECT!
(Every nickel that you save in discounts will help the program overall.)

And REMEMBER to live The Scout Oath: "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty --------."

just my opinion, satx