BP gets bump due to modern ammo$$?

[wpjson]

One of the motivations for me to increase my ML activities was the cost of modern ammo. I can shoot all day for the cost of a box of shells and have a lot more fun doing it. So I was wondering if anyone else has noticed an increase in muzzleloaders since manufactured ammo has become scarce and expensive.

 

[BrownBear]

Not at all around here. Of course, most of us already shoot muzzleloaders.

Talking to manager of the indoor range where I get my free lead, he reported that there's noticeably less lead accumulated in the traps than years past. He said I could get another ton, but I wouldn't be leaving a ton behind like last year. He sezz there are no fewer people shooting, but that guys are a lot more "deliberate" in their shooting and shooting for shorter sessions.

I asked him about muzzleloaders and it was hard for him to judge. Due to the smoke they don't allow them on the indoor range, so the shooting is at the unsupervised outdoor range out of sight behind the indoor range.

 

[Billnpatti]

I have no actual facts, only supposition. If there has been an increase in the sales of any muzzleloading rifles, I would expect to see it in the inline rifles rather than in traditional rifles. The reason being that the people who would be moving into muzzleloading would not be those who are really interested in muzzleloading but just want to hunt a longer season or because of a shortage in modern ammo. They would want a rifle that is more like the modern one that they had to leave behind. They would want all of the modern trappings such as a scope, speed loaders etc.. They would also want to find a powder that was more plentiful than black powder. Pyrodex, Triple 7, etc. in premeasured pellets and modern pistol bullets rather than patched round balls.

In my estimation, one may escape to inlines but one does not escape to traditional muzzleloading, one graduates to traditional muzzleloading and gets their masters and doctorate in shooting flintlocks.

 

[longcruise]

Holy cow!! What are you doing with a ton of lead per year?

 

[Patocazador]

He sezz there are no fewer people shooting, but that guys are a lot more "deliberate" in their shooting and shooting for shorter sessions.

Man, that's not how it seems around here. I bowhunt in a public area that has a private shooting range on the edge of it. While I'm sitting in my tree stand, it sounds like WWIII after 9:00am. Some of it is automatic fire and there are 1000s of rounds fired/hour. :youcrazy: And that's on weekdays as I don't hunt public areas on weekends.

 

[will5a1]

In my neck of the woods, from what I see, traditional muzzleloaders are used less and less every year, the value for most traditional guns creeps down a bit more every year, especially factory made examples, and despite the ammo shortage there are people in my neighborhhood blowing through 30 round mags on a regular basis; it seems as it they are firing hundreds of rounds at time. As fast as they can, most every weekend and some weekdays.

I was in a gunshop back in March and the owner sold a nice, clean T-C for $120 to a friend of mine, it had sat there for too long at $225, than $200, etc.

 

[dmills]

I have no actual facts, only supposition. If there has been an increase in the sales of any muzzleloading rifles, I would expect to see it in the inline rifles rather than in traditional rifles.

I can confirm this just by going to Cabelas or Bass Pro. No traditional MLs on the racks, period. The Bass Pro near me still has one Traditions Ky Rifle Kit on the shelf, but I'll bet it is not replaced when it sells. The stores do carry several varieties of the modern versions.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I have seen a LOT fewer guys at the ranges shooting .22's than before, and, pricing on .22's has gotten just plain silly. I just sold some Federal HV Blue box ammo I bought for $150 a case for $580, and replaced it with a case of Wolf Match Target. that's a trade I'll make all day long!

Yes, I have seen more BP at the ranges than before. Good point about escaping to in-lines, and graduating to flint. When I started in BP 40 years ago, there was no such thing as in-line, so I never did those. I'm sure I would have, because I started in BP to extend my hunting season.

Since I got my first LR (a custom) a few years ago I can not bring myself to even look at anything factory in anything (except C&R guns like Lugers, and 1911's) any more. Now that I build, I won't even look at those. Typical gun guy moving from the quantity to the quality spectrum.

 

[S.Kenton]

I have almost completely stopped shooting modern firearms due to the fact I can't get ammo for them.
I almost hunt completely with M'lers now too, except when I'm bow hunting.

 

[curator]

The general lack of .22 rim fire has been a boon to muzzle loading rifle shooting at the two local boy scout camps. I know because I mostly supply the powder, caps, balls, and patches. I don't see many people "graduating" to inlines to save money. Those things cost as much as $1.50 per shot if you buy pellets, sabot, copper-jacketed pistol bullet and #209 primer. I figure my .50 caliber percussion rifle costs about 18 cents per shot with home cast balls (free lead), real black powder, and patches/lube I make myself. Not quite pre-panic .22 rim fire prices but much more BANG for the buck.

 

[RedFeather]

I thought so, myself, thankfully feeling insulated from the ammo shortages. "At least I can still shoot my ML's". That is, until I checked the Net for percussion caps. Seems most places are O U T, along with every LGS in my area. So we are not immune. Maybe this will give a boost to flintlock sales?

 

[chazz1975]

I have not seen anyone shooting BP around me. Like everyone else has said, there are still plenty of fellas trying to squeeze off as many rounds as possible out of their modern sporting guns (I won't call them assault rifles, most of these guys are wanna-be suburban commandos and mall-ninja types. What are these yahoos seriously going to assault? The food court at the local mall or shopping center? :rotf: ) It is just slightly more of an inconvenience for me now to find everything I need to shoot. Before I could find everything I needed for the season at one of my LGS. Now, My LGS doesn't seem to stock percussion caps anymore, but was able to find several tins of them at a local big-box sporting goods store at the end of last year. Another one of my LGS stocks PRBs, or I make the trip to Cabelas. Hmm...just a little more driving and more time to myself to enjoy my solitary hobby. Both my LGS still stock Goex 3f, so I am set. Just need to get more flints for my flintlocks, as those seem to be in short supply around me.

 

[smoothshooter]

Interest in traditional muzzleloaders has declined in my area as well, and was low to begin with. I hate to say it, but in another 20 or 30 years, nearly all of the wonderful custom and semi- custom traditional guns we shoot now will be permanently retired wallhangers due to lack of interest, and lack of powder. However, there may be a new collector field created known as some sort of " Second Golden Age of Muzzleloaders", guns made by the wonderful contemporary - to- us makers whose work we have been enjoying for the last 40 years. These guns will end up in the possession of the few people still allowed to own firearms, or forgotten in closets. It won't cost much to get into this field, since these guns will be able to be bought for nickels on the dollar of their current value.

 

[FishDFly]

Nope, not in my area.

 

[necchi]

These guns will end up in the possession of the few people still allowed to own firearms, or forgotten in closets. It won't cost much to get into this field, since these guns will be able to be bought for nickels on the dollar of their current value.

With all respect,
Not A Chance. Not in this neck of the woods. We raise our children proper.
Flip the coin, I think a huge problem is the current cost of a contemporary build. People new to the sport are finding factory rifles that cost as much if not more than modern guns, with custom going for thousands.

 

[FishDFly]

"It won't cost much to get into this field, since these guns will be able to be bought for nickels on the dollar of their current value."

I look at the classifieds here and it "seems" that within the last year or so prices are trending down. I could be wrong, but I have seen a couple that seemed to be under what they were selling for before.

Who knows when caps will return to where they can be found easily, being scare hurts sales of new and used guns.

Black powder for the most part is impossible to find for most folks locally, it has to be ordered and folks are lazy.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I see less and less people shooting anything due to costs. While BP is still less than hi power centerfire, shooting BP shotguns is actually a lot more expensive than modern. Lead shot the same cost.Black powder 16 dollars a lb/red dot 8 dollars a lb. Bp 75 grain/ reddot 18 grain!, Percusion caps $7.50/100 209 primers 19.00/1000!So while the 22 and 22/250 sit so do the BP shotguns. :idunno:

 

[biliff]

Your prices for 209 primers and smokeless powder are what they were back in the good old days. It's more like $30 to $40 per thousand depending on brand and $18-$20 per lb if you can get it.

In any case, there really hasn't been an increase in people shooting front stuffers of any kind. They would rather stop shooting than go through the pain and suffering of muzzleloading. As one lady recently said to her husband when he showed interest in my flintlock: "it seems like a lot of trouble for just one shot."

 

[coloradoclyde]

Places like Cabelas and Bass Pro buy in bulk to get the best price. they have been known to buy entire production runs. as a result their warehouses over flow with supply when demand drops. My local cabelas has tons of modern inlines that just aren't selling. Its simple ecomomics, the market is saturated with modern mls and retailers won't order any traditional rifles until the stockpile of modern ones is gone.

Additionally manufacturers are in the same boat with having to wait for the orders from retailers to increase to justify retooling.
traditional muzzleloading is growing in popularity..look at custom builders wait times. it just hasn't caught up to the big manufacturers yet. :2

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I don't think there has been a rise in the number of black powder shooters, but I think those that have traditional rifles are pulling them out of the closet and dusting them off due to some of the ammo shortages.

I think that if reloading components continue to be scarse then those using inlines having to use primers for ignition will think again about buying something that uses caps...or perhaps flints.

LD