Breech plug won't budge

[stewart.leach]

Recently rec'd a new kit from a reputable supplier. It has a Green Mountain barrel, with the breech plug installed. I need to get it out for two reasons, firstly to set the barrel down and back squarely against the wood, and secondly I want to file a taper on the lug of the plug.

I can't get the plug to budge. Clamped well in a pattern maker's vise and using a 15" Crescent wrench just broke the wooden jaws. Made new jaws of oak, they broke too. Tried soaking inside and out with Kroil for a week, no improvement. Tried heating the breech with a heat gun, still no rotation. Bought a better vise, a big one with 6" jaws and four hold down bolts. After fitting protective plates of heavy brass sheet I put a two foot pipe extension on the wrench handle and only succeeded in lifting the end of the bench off the floor.

Any suggestions? I've already contacted the supplier for help, the pipe extension was their idea. Green Mtn is not answering their phone. I'm about ready to ship the barrel back to the supplier.

 

[rich pierce]

Lefty loosey right? Just kidding. You’ll need real heat, a torch, make sure when you clamp the barrel it is not clamped over the threads. Second person to heat it while you turn it out. Do not simply put pressure on the wrench. Hit it with a heavy hammer.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Stewart,
Rich is correct....... make sure you are not over the threads. Another issue is heat quick with lots of heat, but do not overheat. If you heat too slow or to long then the breech plug will also expand. You just want the barrel to expand.
Give it another try, but heat quick and then show it who is boss.
Flintlocklar

 

[waarp8nt]

Rice makes aluminum vise jaws to hold octagon barrels, they also have a handy breech plug wrench made to put a pipe on it for extra length. However in your situation you might be better off sending it to the supplier, takes the responsibility / possibility of any damage off you and puts it back on them.

 

[Zonie]

I've never had good luck when I tried using wood for protection in a vise. It's too soft and too weak to take the loads of removing things like breech plugs.

Go to your local hardware store and buy a small sheet of brass. Cut out a few pieces the size of the vise jaws leaveing some tabs on the edges so they can be bent over the vise jaws to keep them in place.

The brass sheet will protect the barrel but it is strong enough to take the clamping loads.

 

[tallpine]

You should not need a 2 foot cheater pipe to get a breech plug out of a new barrel.

 

[ord sgt]

If you decide to remove the breech plug yourself, put a witness mark into the bottom side of the barrel. Use a cold chisel and strike a line covering the plug and the barrel. It will help you align the two pieces when you reassemble them.
Brownells also has an octagon barrel clamp for removing breech plugs.

 

[hdplayer]

A second for the Rice jaws and wrench. Also, try to heat the breach area. Sometimes a candle is enough.

 

[rich pierce]

I've never had good luck when I tried using wood for protection in a vise. It's too soft and too weak to take the loads of removing things like breech plugs.

Go to your local hardware store and buy a small sheet of brass. Cut out a few pieces the size of the vise jaws leaveing some tabs on the edges so they can be bent over the vise jaws to keep them in place.

The brass sheet will protect the barrel but it is strong enough to take the clamping loads.

He stated he did that.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

You should not need a 2 foot cheater pipe to get a breech plug out of a new barrel.

I respectfully disagree. In the last two years I pulled plugs from 2 new Rice barrels three times. I use a cheater bar.
Flintlocklar

 

[tallpine]

I respectfully disagree. In the last two years I pulled plugs from 2 new Rice barrels three times. I use a cheater and besides it saves on the arse hole. (LOL)
Flintlocklar

Larry, I never had the pleasure of removing a Rice breech plug so it is possible that you are correct. I like to fit my breech plug so it will turn 1/8" after the plug bottoms out. never needed anything larger than a 12" crescent wrench.I can see no reason for a breech plug to be that tight unless it was fit poorly

 

[Zonie]

He stated he did that.

Sorry. I missed that.

I wonder if he is doing all of this heavy clamping with the jaws located over the threads on the plug?

Clamping directly over the threads will make the breech plug almost impossible to remove.

 

[nhmoose]

Leave an inch of the barrel out of the vise. Put your 15" wrench on the plug. Wack it with at least a 2-3 pound hammer, not tap but hit it like you mean it. It will loosen.

 

[Vaino]

I cross mark the bbl/plug w/ 2 chisel marks, clamp the bbl in a good vise which has 1/8" thick copper jaw liners, use a 12" Crescent wrench w/ copper padded jaws and attach a 2 ft cheater pipe which is smacked w/ a heavy mallet. Some are harder than others but haven't found one yet that failed to loosen up. A big advantage of using a cheater pipe is that it's easier to align the chisel marks when screwing in.

I usually use Rice bbls and most require the above setup to remove the plug....no big deal and I certainly won't redo the fit.....Fred

 

[bang]

My 40 year old Hawken barrel was tough too. Had to make smooth steel plates for huge vice. Wrapped the barrel with leather. Used a pipe to tighten the vice till I thought the vice would break. Wrapped breach plug with padded steel plate. 16" pipe wrench and cheater pipe. Put my 270 pounds on it, a propane torch and bounced. After about 40 minutes of heating a cooling it finally broke loose. Thought the table was going to flip over.

 

[bubba.50]

You need a bigger hammer.

 

[Relic shooter]

If you apply a small amount of a 50/50 mixture of auto transmission fluid & acetone into the breech & some around the threads outside & let it set for about 3-4 hours the breech plug will break-free with little effort.
This formula works equally well to remove corroded nipples, breech plugs & action screws from old original black powder firearms.
Auto transmission fluid is an excellent thin lubricant & acetone serves as an accelerator & allows the mixture to rapidly penetrate deeper & release frozen threads better than any commercial product I've tried over the years.

 

[Flintfan69]

The problem is that most shop vises from hardware stores are woefully outmatched when it comes to securely holding on to a barrel to pull a plug. If you happen to know a machinist ask him if you can clamp your barrel in a 6" milling machine vice. They have a rock solid positive hold and the barrel will not twist when turning out the plug. Using brass or copper shims will prevent any marking of the flats of a swamped barrel.

The problem with the hardware store vises is not the clamping force that can be applied (which doesn't need to be much even with a machinist's vise) but that the barrel can be torqued out of the jaws due to flexing.

 

[M. De Land]

Might try some dry ice as well. Cold will often times work as well or better than will heat. Not much chance of hurting anything with either really as barrel steel is nomralized at 1200 degrees F but you won't need over 400 F to do the job. I have and use both a barrel wrench and barrel vice that are specifically designed to break loose large , stubborn , often corroded threads by impact as well as torque. The impact is usually the most effective force. The wrench is made to clamp down on either a flat parallel surface or an angular one (breech plug) right up next to the barrel root with two cap screws across from one another on the wrench top flat. You can really lean into one of these outfits with 2 lbs hammer or cheater bar.

 

[stewart.leach]

Many thanks for the many replies to my dilemma.

Will mix up some of the ATF & acetone witches brew to soak inside and out. Will also get a "BMFH" to use on the pipe extension as spouse applies propane torch heat about an inch inboard from where my measurements indicate the plug threads end.

Thanks for the referral to the Rice Barrels website. I have a hankering to build a 12 gauge fowler or trade gun. The current 20 gauge/62 cal Caywood gun proved a little light for turkey last week. Turned into a somewhat comical footrace, me chasing a wounded turkey through the cottonwoods.