Brown Bess Accuracy Stanadards?

[Cessnapilot89]

What was considered accurate shooting with a Brown Bess when these were in service?

 

[Odentheviking]

The "Brown Bess" or LLP/SLP/IP musket was the standard issue Infantry weapon for all British forces for over 120 years. It was not intended to be "accurate", it was intended for Volley Fire. A regiment loaded and raised the weapon to the shoulder level and fired by regiment, by rank, and by file. The idea was not to pick out a single enemy and kill him/her, but to pour fire upon an enemy until they broke. If accuracy is what you seek you need to join a rifle company. Maybe a nice Baker?

 

[Wes/Tex]

Service standards then were based on 'fire volume' and not much toward accuracy. Remember there was not "aim" command at the time...from "make ready" the commands went, "present" and "fire". The Military Treatise of 1768 actually stated:

"No recruit is to be dismissed from drill(meaning initial 'awkward squad') till he is so expert with his firelock, as to load and fire 15 times in 3 minutes & three-quarters."

They were working from a aspect of 'get enough lead in the air and it'll hit something'! This sort of thing...less the surprise on ole shot #3! Hang-fires are a gripe!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJMbxZ1k9NQ

 

[pargent]

Depends on the time and unit, some COs were keen on marksmanship others were not, Light companies were more for better shooting and fast movement in open order . Chosen Man was the term used for a soldier picked for transfere to a Rifle regt.(post 1800 ) .Contary to common belief shooting at marks was always encouraged when there was ammunition to do so , Red coat troops were taught to aim at the cross belt badge of opposing troops . :wink: Also a ball from a Bess will carry out to 800+ YARDS WHEN THE MUZZLE IS ELEVATED .

 

[Cessnapilot89]

Thank you all for your help. Right now I am getting 6-10 inch groups at 50 yards with my Pedersoli. I was just curious as to if the British at the time had some sort of standard such as 5 shots in a 12" target at 100 yards or something along those lines.

 

[pargent]

Just did a dodgy and c;licked on an old post of mine Bess range report.

 

[Cessnapilot89]

This musket does take getting used to

 

[Wes/Tex]

Remember the issue cartridge was a .690" ball and over 160 grains of the then "musket" grade powder. The 'foot' regiments were totally into cranking out rounds as fast & furious as possible. There were indeed special units like Gage's or Frasier's "Marksmen", a special company drawn from the regiments under Burgoyne's command in 1777, and some few of the more enlightened officer's in the "Light" companies seem to have encouraged a few better shots to develop accurate loads(by their standards, naturally)but the overall military tactic was to fill the air with lead!

 

[Rifleman1776]

This musket does take getting used to

Yes, it is a different animule. But, once a good load is worked up you can get acceptable groups at 50 yards. Not military and not 'X' hunters but definitely minute of deer. And the ole Bess is really fun to shoot.

 

[Many Klatch]

You have up to 900 men in a Regiment loading and firing 3 times a minute and throwing .690 caliber pumpkin balls down range. Whether they aim or not chances are someone on the receiving end is going to get hurt. Each soldier carried a belly box with at least 28 rounds. That makes about 25,000 .690 ball in the air. That is about 1,700 pounds of flying lead.

Of course if it was a Scottish Regiment they fired 3 times for effect and then charged with the bayonet. :wink:

 

[Odentheviking]

Quote: "Red coat troops were taught to aim at the cross belt badge of opposing troops"

I have never heard this, anybody got period docs?
I have seen where troops were told to lower the muzzle into an enemies waist belt or lower to adjust for the recoil/lift that would often send rounds over the enemies head. The most common wound for 18th and 19th century soldiers was in the right hand/arm. This is said to be because of the right hand/arm being over the head while loading.
Like somene pointed out earlier...... there was no "aim" in the orders to fire. Two diaries I know of state that men often turned thier head away just before pulling the trigger. Two reasons, one: if you were to pick a man out and see him fall it would be "Murder". Two: today we all must have flash shields/guards to fire in rank/file, but then the guy next to you could give you a nasty flash burn to the side of your face. The term "Side Burns" was being used long before the ACW General Burnside, it was a term for the hair men grew to hide the powder burns to the side of the face.
Lets also not forget that when wearing a proper British neck stock you can not bend the neck over to "sight" down the barrel.
If you ask me, discussing the accuracy of a Brown Bess is like throwing axes....... Sure folks did it for fun and gambling..... but it is not what was intended!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have seen where troops were told to lower the muzzle into an enemies waist belt or lower to adjust for the recoil/lift that would often send rounds over the enemies head.

"seen" ???
You were there? :shocked2: :bow:
We now have the ultimate authority on things Rev. War. :thumbsup:
BTW, a 'Bess would not "recoil/lift" appreciably on firing. No more than any other long gun. If they did none of us would be able to hit anything with our muzzle guns.
Methinks the cannon noise messed with yer hearing. :rotf: :v

 

[Cessnapilot89]

160 grains! Holy moly! Right now I am using 80 grains of Goex FFG and I thought that was substantial.

 

[Odentheviking]

I am so sorry to all the good folks here at The ML Forum and mostly to Rifleman1776! I had no idea that the folks over at "AXXXXXXXX CXXXXXXXXX" had taken over this site and that we are now required to post all documentations for any statement we make!

But as stated earlier in this post; the standard load for a BB was 160 grains of powder! I am sure that Rifleman1776 could handle that load w/no problem! I am sure there is no recoil or lift with that load???? When you guys are busting paper what do you use? Maybe 65 to 75 grains???? And don't forget that priming horn w/the custom powder so you don't mess w/your custom aluminum foil rapper rounds!

p.s. Riflewoman1776; If I'm so wrong and you were so right....... why did you delete your post????

I have seen where troops were told to lower the muzzle into an enemies waist belt or lower to adjust for the recoil/lift that would often send rounds over the enemies head.

"seen" ???
You were there? :shocked2: :bow:
We now have the ultimate authority on things Rev. War. :thumbsup:
BTW, a 'Bess would not "recoil/lift" appreciably on firing. No more than any other long gun. If they did none of us would be able to hit anything with our muzzle guns.
Methinks the cannon noise messed with yer hearing. :rotf: :v

 

[azmntman]

I still see his post? Don't think he was messing with ya, ? I wouldn't wanna shoot that load! I accidentally doubled a 12GA load a buddy shot and he (being a huge burly type) was rolling on the ground murmuring (loudly) about "not doing recoil"? OUCH. My gobbler 12GA likely a bit lighter than the bess but still, I'm not shooting 160!

 

[Cessnapilot89]

Aye, 160gr seems a bit excessive.

 

[Odentheviking]

I am ref. his post of; "Quote: "Red coat troops were taught to aim at the cross belt badge of opposing troops" That has been deleted.
I just wanted to know if that was true or not, I have never heard that before.

 

[azmntman]

p.s. Riflewoman1776

I see he didnt reply to "Paulla Bennet" so no need to start this BS. Moderators gonna be jumping in here if this gets worse. Geez :shake: :td:

 

[Many Klatch]

I understand that the standard load varied somewhat from Regiment to Regiment and year to year 160 grains would be the high end and 110 grains is the low end. The 160 grain cartridge would also have been used to prime the pan so that would reduce the load somewhat, especially if some spilled on the ground during loading.

I shoot 90 to 110 grains in my Bess Carbine and it does recoil a bit. The barrel does come up when I shoot a full sized charge. I have on occasion double charged when shooting at long ranges and 220 grains or 180 grains will get your attention.

 

[nwtradegun]

mike your bore there is a wide range in diametthe er. mine is a 729 bore. I use a 715 round ball and 10 to 12 th. patch and 85 gr. of 3 f. this gives me 3 shot dinner plate hits at 50 yards my hunting limit. a 690 opens it up to 18 inches.