If this has been covered, I apologize. I have some money to spend and am still wanting a flinter. This one I will keep. I like the Brown bess in cabelas. ?, who makes it and pros and cons. How do you load it? Does it take patch and ball also. Is cleaning the same as a rifle? any info is helpful
brown bess at cabelas
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Rat
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Don't know who makes the Cabelas Bess...mine is a Pedersoli and it's a REALLY good weapon.
The Bess will shoot ball or shot. I use self-contained paper shot cartridges in mine, and shoot a patched round ball, in the normal manner...as you would with a rifle.
I have rifle sights on my Bess...accuracy is very good. I hunt turkey, grouse, Elk, Deer and black bear with mine. With ball I can consistantly kill a paper plate at 75 yards. Patterns with shot are excellent.
I've found that a smoothbore cleans up more easy than a rifle, for me, and have found that a flinter is more easy to clean than a percussion. I do NOT clean a ML with water. Your results may vary!!
:results:
Rat
The Bess will shoot ball or shot. I use self-contained paper shot cartridges in mine, and shoot a patched round ball, in the normal manner...as you would with a rifle.
I have rifle sights on my Bess...accuracy is very good. I hunt turkey, grouse, Elk, Deer and black bear with mine. With ball I can consistantly kill a paper plate at 75 yards. Patterns with shot are excellent.
I've found that a smoothbore cleans up more easy than a rifle, for me, and have found that a flinter is more easy to clean than a percussion. I do NOT clean a ML with water. Your results may vary!!
:results:
Rat
I believe that Cabela's Bess is made by Pedersoli. You can shoot just about anything you want out of it, shot, round balls, rocks, whatever you can put down the bore. As for clean up, i agree with Rat. It is easier to clean smoothbore than a rifle, no rifling for crud to hide in. And i too think a flinter is easier to clean than a caplock.
Rat
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Well if it's a Pedersoli it's a darn good gun...the one I got sure is. It is VERY sure-fire and fast ignition. Mine is definately a keeper. Again, you can hunt everything with it, especially if you put some "period correct" long-rifle sights on it. (yeah I know there are no "Brown Bess correct" rifle sights)
I did cone the outside of the touch-hole VERY slightly, and I also deepened the pan just slightly to raise the touch-hole in the pan, again, slightly. Little bit. Not much.
Just curious...what's it best to patch them rocks with?? Are those round river-rocks...or minnie rocks?
Rat
I did cone the outside of the touch-hole VERY slightly, and I also deepened the pan just slightly to raise the touch-hole in the pan, again, slightly. Little bit. Not much.
Just curious...what's it best to patch them rocks with?? Are those round river-rocks...or minnie rocks?
Rat
I bought one from Cabela's four years ago, Pedrsoli. It sparked when it wanted to no matter how I positioned the flint. I never cared for the gun. It was a pain to keep bright, and it never was reliable. I paid 679 for it and sold it for 550. This is just one man's opinion. I could have had the lock fixed, but didn't. Next one I'd get I would get the lock worked on, and I would get a different flash hole put in it for quicker ignition. :imo:
Rat
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Wow that's really a different experience. I've often wondered if there can be a lot of variation between the same gun, off the same "line", just depending on which employee did the work, etc. Kind of like cars and the "monday morning" thing/car. ?? Mine is a little over three years old...that would put them pretty close to the same year of manufacture.
For hunting, the last thing I want is a bright gun, so I've let my musket take on that nice grey, natural patina...looks great I think. Really darkened up this hunting season after carrying it quite a bit with hot sweaty hands! Did more stalking and walking this year. You can also brown or blue them if you want. It took my barrel about three years to naturally age to the nice dark grey it is now. Same with the brass, in fact I even "hurried" that along by wiping it with dirty patches from the bore. Gave it a nice dark, almost bronze like "patina". Again I don't like bright guns, steel or brass. It looks neat when they are new...but I definately let them "age".
That's too bad you got a bad lock...I wonder if Pedersoli would have replaced it. My ignition is extremely fast and reliable. What kind of flints did you use?
I suppose any production gun would benefit from having the lock tuned...but I don't think a flash-hole insert would make any difference, or at least not on my gun. My touch hole was positioned very well...wonder if your's was drilled in a different location than mine?? That's probably very possible.
Rat
For hunting, the last thing I want is a bright gun, so I've let my musket take on that nice grey, natural patina...looks great I think. Really darkened up this hunting season after carrying it quite a bit with hot sweaty hands! Did more stalking and walking this year. You can also brown or blue them if you want. It took my barrel about three years to naturally age to the nice dark grey it is now. Same with the brass, in fact I even "hurried" that along by wiping it with dirty patches from the bore. Gave it a nice dark, almost bronze like "patina". Again I don't like bright guns, steel or brass. It looks neat when they are new...but I definately let them "age".
That's too bad you got a bad lock...I wonder if Pedersoli would have replaced it. My ignition is extremely fast and reliable. What kind of flints did you use?
I suppose any production gun would benefit from having the lock tuned...but I don't think a flash-hole insert would make any difference, or at least not on my gun. My touch hole was positioned very well...wonder if your's was drilled in a different location than mine?? That's probably very possible.
Rat
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I have 2 Besses. One, an original 3rd model, the other is probably a reproduction. It has no markings at all and the lock marks(if any) were ground off. The point is that they both spark like crazy when I do my part right. tg likes to use big ugly spalls in his locks. Both of my locks like these, too. Losts of fun! But that's what this is all about. Just my $.02. Bill
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Yep, that is what all the talk was about with the poor breeching on the one Daryl bought from them. The thread is on here somewhere but i don't know where. Maybe MM can find it for you.
RussB
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I'm not quite sure what's being said here.
If the Bess from Heritage Arms is of "poor" quality, and daryl said in his post that you could "get a "better" rifle, for less money".....or words to that effect. Are we talking about the Pedersoli Bess? Or is there another manufacturer out there that has not been mentioned.
I always thought the Pedersoli guns were fairly expensive, compared to other like guns.
Rat sure seems to like his. Where are you folks getting the Pedersoli? Who is selling them?...other than DGW.
For the past 6 months or so, you fellows have got me thinking about a Bess for my smoothie, but everything I've looked at is a bit more expensive than I originally thought.
Russ
If the Bess from Heritage Arms is of "poor" quality, and daryl said in his post that you could "get a "better" rifle, for less money".....or words to that effect. Are we talking about the Pedersoli Bess? Or is there another manufacturer out there that has not been mentioned.
I always thought the Pedersoli guns were fairly expensive, compared to other like guns.
Rat sure seems to like his. Where are you folks getting the Pedersoli? Who is selling them?...other than DGW.
For the past 6 months or so, you fellows have got me thinking about a Bess for my smoothie, but everything I've looked at is a bit more expensive than I originally thought.
Russ
RussB
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Guess I forgot to say in my previous post thatthe reason I'm asking is I have "kinda" had my eye on a couple of guns from Heritage.
The French 1777
And the 1778 Seamusket.
They both seem very reasonable priced....to me. But I do want to hear more about the Brown Bess from Cabala's.
Russ
The French 1777
And the 1778 Seamusket.
They both seem very reasonable priced....to me. But I do want to hear more about the Brown Bess from Cabala's.
Russ
Russ, no Daryl did not have a Pedersoli, he had one of the India made Sea Services Bess's. The Pedersoli Bess should be fine, but then it isn't under $500 either. The Sea service is one of the India made ones and is the model that Daryl had breechplug problems with. If you buy the Pedersoli and not one of the India made one you should be fine.
RussB
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My point exactly, Rebel.
What other "brands" or "sources" are there for a Brown Bess? Who makes the Bess sold by Cabela's?
I have not seen a Bess offered by Cabela's. All of their rifles for BPCR are Pedersoli, with the exception of the Buffalo Classic by H&R.
I don't think the Bess from Cabela's is in the catalog yet, at least not in my catalog....
Was the Bess seen in one of Cabela's stores? Or in a flyer or catalog?
Russ
Cabela's has carried the Bess for quite awhile. It isn't in every catalog because it isn't the latest inline, which is what they promote the most. Their Bess and I think Harper's Ferry, Trade Gun and Charleville are all Pedersoli. I don't have the catalog in front of me so I'm only about 95% sure on that.
Russ, the latest Cabela's catalog i have lists the Bess at $899.99 and they are made by Pedersoli. You might try Middlesex Village Trading Company. The are in the U.S. and sell the India made muskets at the lowest prices i have seen, and theirs come with the bayonet, hammerstall, and flashguard, and sling for $595 for the Long Land Pattern.
chickenlittle
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I see thet Cabela's is offer'n .62 cal. roundballs fer ther .62 cal. Trade Gun,.... thet orta be a "snug fit"!! :crackup:
Guest
I bought the Sea Service from www.militaryheritage.com. THAT musket had a breeching problem and was returned for refund. The breech was so poor in machining, that it allowed powder fouling to blast all the way back to the breech plate/shield. Had the breech been normal, as in a tang with screw section, the stock would have blown apart. Of that, there is no question. As well, the breech plug was almost 2/10" shorter than the threads in the barrel.
; It is possible the musket I bought is the only one of it's ilk & all the rest are just fine. For the money invested, I merely felt a much better buy would be from the parts list from Track. For the same $500.00 US- you can have all the parts needed to make a fine English fowler with GOOD parts. As well, they'll do any work you want them to do, piece miel. I know the breeching would be done properly, and in no need of a flash guard to stop the fouling from blowing out the stock.
This picture shows the flash-plate between the threaded section and the tang. Apparently, the Indian muskets made for Loyalist also have this feature as well & at least one source mentioned that one outfit now buys theirs from the same sourse as Loyalist.
; The gouge between the threads and the plate was filled level with powder fouling as were the threads almost entirely full with fouling sticking up above the steel peaks. The grey colour is remaining fouling that didn't easily wipe off.
: Now, having fouling blown through the threads to the rear surface of the barrel each shot, and relying on the pressure of the plate against the barrel to hold the breech pressure inside, is an accident waiting to happen, in my opinion and that of retired riflesmith Taylor Sapergia. On top of this, the measured thread engagement of .002", .015", .027" and .029" fo the breechplug inside the barrel is much less than 1/2 of the proper engagement for that thread size. Of course, the .002" and the .015" are barely hanging on by their fingernail tips. The fit ws much like you'd find in puting an undersize screw into an oversize hole:ie: 8X32 in a 10X32 hole.THAT's how sloppy the plug fit. TODAYm, it isn't sufficient, especally at the prices charged for these muskets. They're cheaper than Pedersoli's, but much more than the Lyman GPR rifles that require much more refined workmanship & include a rifled barrel. I suggest a person buy a GPR and a 20 bore Green Mountain smooth barrel for it.
; According to my correspondence with The Discriminating General's store, even the Pedersoli's have breech-plug gap problems - 1/4" gap on the one they measured - one needs to be careful no matter what they buy, it seems.
; Oh yes, another thing, the barrel pins, while not a big deal, had square shanks, ends, rivetted ends that punched out wood upon removal, etc. As well, the sling swivel, instead of going through a barrel loop, oly pierced the foreend's wood. The cross screw was such a fit that I couldn't tightne it up at all for fear fo it stripping, so loose was it's thread. I was afraid to take the lock apart so didn't even look at tit's inards- it was an incrdible sparker- THAT they had done well. The Sea Service really looked nice from a distance, as it does in the picture, but close up it's really rough. Re-finishing is possible and recommended but the barrel pin's ends can't be chamfered until they are removed, and their removal chipped wood on two of the holes out of three I removed. The workmanship was not up to the price they charged- maybe 1/2 would be inline, and at that, it'd been $350.00 Canadian, not the over $700.00 I paid. GPR's are under $500.00 here and barels for them are $100.00. I could have done just what I recommended, for less money, and had a properly made gun.
; It is possible the musket I bought is the only one of it's ilk & all the rest are just fine. For the money invested, I merely felt a much better buy would be from the parts list from Track. For the same $500.00 US- you can have all the parts needed to make a fine English fowler with GOOD parts. As well, they'll do any work you want them to do, piece miel. I know the breeching would be done properly, and in no need of a flash guard to stop the fouling from blowing out the stock.
; The gouge between the threads and the plate was filled level with powder fouling as were the threads almost entirely full with fouling sticking up above the steel peaks. The grey colour is remaining fouling that didn't easily wipe off.
: Now, having fouling blown through the threads to the rear surface of the barrel each shot, and relying on the pressure of the plate against the barrel to hold the breech pressure inside, is an accident waiting to happen, in my opinion and that of retired riflesmith Taylor Sapergia. On top of this, the measured thread engagement of .002", .015", .027" and .029" fo the breechplug inside the barrel is much less than 1/2 of the proper engagement for that thread size. Of course, the .002" and the .015" are barely hanging on by their fingernail tips. The fit ws much like you'd find in puting an undersize screw into an oversize hole:ie: 8X32 in a 10X32 hole.THAT's how sloppy the plug fit. TODAYm, it isn't sufficient, especally at the prices charged for these muskets. They're cheaper than Pedersoli's, but much more than the Lyman GPR rifles that require much more refined workmanship & include a rifled barrel. I suggest a person buy a GPR and a 20 bore Green Mountain smooth barrel for it.
; According to my correspondence with The Discriminating General's store, even the Pedersoli's have breech-plug gap problems - 1/4" gap on the one they measured - one needs to be careful no matter what they buy, it seems.
; Oh yes, another thing, the barrel pins, while not a big deal, had square shanks, ends, rivetted ends that punched out wood upon removal, etc. As well, the sling swivel, instead of going through a barrel loop, oly pierced the foreend's wood. The cross screw was such a fit that I couldn't tightne it up at all for fear fo it stripping, so loose was it's thread. I was afraid to take the lock apart so didn't even look at tit's inards- it was an incrdible sparker- THAT they had done well. The Sea Service really looked nice from a distance, as it does in the picture, but close up it's really rough. Re-finishing is possible and recommended but the barrel pin's ends can't be chamfered until they are removed, and their removal chipped wood on two of the holes out of three I removed. The workmanship was not up to the price they charged- maybe 1/2 would be inline, and at that, it'd been $350.00 Canadian, not the over $700.00 I paid. GPR's are under $500.00 here and barels for them are $100.00. I could have done just what I recommended, for less money, and had a properly made gun.
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