Brown Bess: I gots me some questions...

[Wawyasto]

UPDATE:

I ordered some ,690 and .735 balls this week, we'll give both a try and go from there. If the .735's work better I'll use the .690's to make preloaded cartridges for a 'rainy day'.

I got out to the range and put a few rounds through it this afternoon. It came with a pouch of .735 balls to I tried it out with 90 grains of 2F and wadding made from of all things some printer paper I happened to have on hand in the truck. Wadded up a quarter sheet, ball, another wadded up quarter sheet and rammed it home. First shot was at a full sized IPSC steel target made of 3/8" AR500 set up at 25 yards. Hit was low but sounded like an angry gorilla hit it with a 12 pound sledgehammer. Fired a second round at another IPSC set up at 50, rang it there, too. I was 2 for 3 with the next shots taken at 50 before I put it away. This thing's gonna be fun to play with.

 

[tenngun]

Thanks for the discussion. I've been following this since I bought a Pedersoli Brown Bess carbine which I have yet to shoot. I've heard it isn't apt to remain as shiny as it is now but I'd like to preserve it as best as I can. Were any sort of Bess's ever browned? I'm asking that because it appears Pedersoli also makes a Brown Bess "Trade Gun" which appears to be the same gun as the carbine with a browned finish. Was the Brown Bess Trade Gun a real thing in the past?

The trade gun is modeled after the northwest trade gun of Hudson Bay company. The stock style was similar to the bess. Such a stock was common on blunderbusses also civilian or military.
The trade guns were blued, the surviving ones have oxidized to brown over the years.
Besses were heavy and made for fighting. Either as a handle for the bayonet or a club.
The trade gun is slimmer and more dainty. Even when seen with 42” barrel they were light compared to a bess.
Archeology in Indian village sites don’t show any bess parts. Nor do we have them show up in ledgers. After defeats of English during the French and Indian wars Indians would have had a chance to pick them up, we just don’t have anything to show they did.
The officers fusil was often a light looking bess, generally in smaller calibers and very light. Middlesex Village arms has one. The barrel is brown on top, when they removed the barrel they found it blue in protected areas
Manual Lisa had a ‘sporterized’ brown bess. This may have been a bess that trimmed down, or may have been an officers fusil. Veteran arms offers a copy of this type gun
There were hundreds of thousands of besses made. They did sell some old ones to Mexico, but all and all we have little evidence of them getting in to civilian hands

 

[Louisk]

The trade gun is modeled after the northwest trade gun of Hudson Bay company. The stock style was similar to the bess. Such a stock was common on blunderbusses also civilian or military.
The trade guns were blued, the surviving ones have oxidized to brown over the years.
Besses were heavy and made for fighting. Either as a handle for the bayonet or a club.
The trade gun is slimmer and more dainty. Even when seen with 42” barrel they were light compared to a bess.
Archeology in Indian village sites don’t show any bess parts. Nor do we have them show up in ledgers. After defeats of English during the French and Indian wars Indians would have had a chance to pick them up, we just don’t have anything to show they did.
The officers fusil was often a light looking bess, generally in smaller calibers and very light. Middlesex Village arms has one. The barrel is brown on top, when they removed the barrel they found it blue in protected areas
Manual Lisa had a ‘sporterized’ brown bess. This may have been a bess that trimmed down, or may have been an officers fusil. Veteran arms offers a copy of this type gun
There were hundreds of thousands of besses made. They did sell some old ones to Mexico, but all and all we have little evidence of them getting in to civilian hands

I much appreciate your very well informed and detailed reply! Sure is a lot of history to be learned about these things.

 

[Montana33]

Some of the pedersoli percussion doubles had chrome lined barrels but I don't think the Bess ever did.

I love paper cartridges and would suggest using the largest ball you can load easily. The originals used the small .690 ball because they were more concerned with easy loading in a battle than they were with accuracy.

 

[OldSmoky1967]

Thanks for the discussion. I've been following this since I bought a Pedersoli Brown Bess carbine which I have yet to shoot. I've heard it isn't apt to remain as shiny as it is now but I'd like to preserve it as best as I can. Were any sort of Bess's ever browned? I'm asking that because it appears Pedersoli also makes a Brown Bess "Trade Gun" which appears to be the same gun as the carbine with a browned finish. Was the Brown Bess Trade Gun a real thing in the past?

The Brown Bess Trade Gun was a real thing. And they were browned, in some cases. The 3rd. Pattern or India Pattern was browned, but only in the latter years as they were winding down with wars in Europe and about to transition to rifled muskets. Then, the trade gun was made by companies from parts normally used in the Bess, but with the wars over they needed to move the stock of parts they had on hand. The British govt. accepted these weapons for protection of African trade routes, and they were also sold, primarily in Africa, but were used in other places, as well.

Primarily, these guns would have Leige, or Birmingham proofs, not Board of Ordinance proofs. Some of them had Tower stamps/acceptance marks and some had inspector's marks, usually a civilian contracor hired to organize and maintain the arms for the journeys.

 

[Canute Rex]

I bought my Pedesoli spring 2022, used in the box w/all the paperwork never fired, the owner a reanactor bought it a while back as a spare, decided to let it go thru referrals for $1,200 with a soft case too. The photo below is the muzzle when I bought it, does look like a steel liner. Anyway I agree with above posts. Used .735, .069 balls. The .735 I shoot with a greased .010 patch, have shot 7 rounds with no need for a clean swipe. I bought the cartridge kit from Jefferson Arms with the .690 balls (See the link). They were easy and quick to order the kit. Im still getting used to it and only shooting at 50 yards until I get comfortable with it. Unsupported I have a bad habit on dropping the barrel on the trigger pull thus shooting low I caught that by videoing myself. Support on a sand bag eliminates it.

Shooting a Bess is tricky because of the bear trap trigger pull, slow lock time, and minimal sight (bayonet lug). Some tips:

Get a death grip on the wrist with your right hand. That way it won't "fall off the trigger" and shoot low.

Just before getting your sight picture, shift your head back along the comb by an inch. That will save your nose from your right thumb and reduce flinch.

Follow through is everything. You have to be a statue for a month or so while the lockwork gets around to doing its job.

Start your sighting in at 25 yards with a big square with just a horizontal stripe for a target. Try sight pictures with the top of the bayonet lug on the line with 1) all of the lug showing above the barrel, 2) a square of the lug showing, and 3) with a sliver of lug showing. See where the ball goes above, below, or on the line.

Then try sighting in with just a vertical line and see where your shots go depending on lug alignment with the tang screw (slot lined up with the barrel) - slot, left edge, right edge, partway between. A small dot of white paint just at the breech makes your sight picture permanent.

Have fun and good luck!

 

[RicM]

Thanks!! Great advice, will do what you suggested

 

[Canute Rex]

Thanks!! Great advice, will do what you suggested

Please report back on how it goes.

 

[Louisk]

Shooting a Bess is tricky because of the bear trap trigger pull, slow lock time, and minimal sight (bayonet lug). Some tips:

Get a death grip on the wrist with your right hand. That way it won't "fall off the trigger" and shoot low.

Just before getting your sight picture, shift your head back along the comb by an inch. That will save your nose from your right thumb and reduce flinch.

Follow through is everything. You have to be a statue for a month or so while the lockwork gets around to doing its job.

Start your sighting in at 25 yards with a big square with just a horizontal stripe for a target. Try sight pictures with the top of the bayonet lug on the line with 1) all of the lug showing above the barrel, 2) a square of the lug showing, and 3) with a sliver of lug showing. See where the ball goes above, below, or on the line.

Then try sighting in with just a vertical line and see where your shots go depending on lug alignment with the tang screw (slot lined up with the barrel) - slot, left edge, right edge, partway between. A small dot of white paint just at the breech makes your sight picture permanent.

Have fun and good luck!

This sounds like great advice. I'm getting antsy to get out and see what I can do with my Bess but I fear that the snow in my shooting area is still up past my butt. Seems like having the ball hit dirt would be more helpful for seeing where shots are going than having it disappear into the snow.