Brown Bess stock

[Michael76]

I recently purchased a used middle set village Tradeing company Brown Bess. I would like to replace the stock . Can anyone recommend a company that sells Brown Bess stocks that would fit a Indian Kit Brown Bess .
thank you in advance
mike

 

[tenngun]

Check with Hoffman historic, he reworks loyalist arm guns I don’t know if he could give you a line or not.
Another option is pecotonic for a blank and they custom cut a channel for you

 

[bigdude100]

http://dunlapwoodcrafts.com/military-stocks#33
dunlap has two replacement stocks for Brown Bess

 

[Artificer]

http://dunlapwoodcrafts.com/military-stocks#33
dunlap has two replacement stocks for Brown Bess

It probably would be best to ask before ordering IF the India locks are the same size or larger than the Italian locks, so they would fit the lock mortise. I don't know, but maybe someone else does.

Gus

 

[Surfinator58]

Hey Mike
IMA sells a BB stock for 275.
Heres a link for a miroku someone restocked.Nice resolution on the pics! New Reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess
I think more info is best when trying to figure out your options.
I have an India made Fusil in 62cal from Military heritage I have shot and refininished.
Great gun love itI

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Hey Mike
IMA sells a BB stock for 275.
Heres a link for a miroku someone restocked.Nice resolution on the pics! New Reworking a Pedersoli Brown Bess
I think more info is best when trying to figure out your options.
I have an India made Fusil in 62cal from Military heritage I have shot and refininished.
Great gun love itI

So the IMA Bess are all 3rd Model stocks, and the lock on the 3rd model Bess is even smaller than the SLP Bess and the SLP Bess lock is smaller than the LLP Bess lock or the India made copy of the LLP. Now IMA may be offering other stocks, but this was what I found a few months ago...

It probably would be best to ask before ordering IF the India locks are the same size or larger than the Italian locks, so they would fit the lock mortise. I don't know, but maybe someone else does.

Gus

I was there at Dunlap several years ago as it's a short drive from my home, and the stock on the website at DUNLAP is for a Pedersoli, not an Indian Bess. It corrects the "drop" as well, for easier shooting, if you want or you can get a 100% copy of a Pedersoli stock ( I bought one as I have a Frankenbess project that one day I shall finish....)

They have a stock making machine, so I asked when I was there if they could make a copy of the India stock in maple or walnut, and they can, BUT there is a minimum order of stocks, and I didn't have the coin to invest. (iirc) the minimum order was a dozen, so I'd have to drop close to 2K to get a stock and then sell off 11 more... and that was a Pre-COVID price...OH and I'm unable to store 11 stocks at my house...

The procedure would be for me to strip off my India stock of all hardware, and fill in any areas with wood putty or epoxy, that I didn't want the machine to copy, so some carved areas I might want to do different. Then I would pay them and give them my modified India stock as a "master", and they would carve out the copies for me. And I would be in business.

The only problem is that not all India made Bess are the same, and IF I made the stocks too generic, then that would mean a lot more work to the buyers of the other 11 stocks....

and do I have them make the ramrod channel and hole for a wooden rammer or not ????

Hmmm... maybe I should call them and check on the current production price and minimum run. I might rethink going into the India stock replacement business...

LD

 

[Artificer]

So the IMA Bess are all 3rd Model stocks, and the lock on the 3rd model Bess is even smaller than the SLP Bess and the SLP Bess lock is smaller than the LLP Bess lock or the India made copy of the LLP. Now IMA may be offering other stocks, but this was what I found a few months ago...



I was there at Dunlap several years ago as it's a short drive from my home, and the stock on the website at DUNLAP is for a Pedersoli, not an Indian Bess. It corrects the "drop" as well, for easier shooting, if you want or you can get a 100% copy of a Pedersoli stock ( I bought one as I have a Frankenbess project that one day I shall finish....)

They have a stock making machine, so I asked when I was there if they could make a copy of the India stock in maple or walnut, and they can, BUT there is a minimum order of stocks, and I didn't have the coin to invest. (iirc) the minimum order was a dozen, so I'd have to drop close to 2K to get a stock and then sell off 11 more... and that was a Pre-COVID price...OH and I'm unable to store 11 stocks at my house...

The procedure would be for me to strip off my India stock of all hardware, and fill in any areas with wood putty or epoxy, that I didn't want the machine to copy, so some carved areas I might want to do different. Then I would pay them and give them my modified India stock as a "master", and they would carve out the copies for me. And I would be in business.

The only problem is that not all India made Bess are the same, and IF I made the stocks too generic, then that would mean a lot more work to the buyers of the other 11 stocks....

and do I have them make the ramrod channel and hole for a wooden rammer or not ????

Hmmm... maybe I should call them and check on the current production price and minimum run. I might rethink going into the India stock replacement business...

LD

May I make some suggestions, but first I have a question?

Does he have any kind of inletting pre-done for the Rammer Pipes? (Last time I saw one of his Bess stocks, they weren't, but I don't know if that has been changed.) Personally, I would specify NO Rammer Pipe inlets.

My reasoning is this, if your stock can fit more guns, they will sell quicker.
India muskets come in both 42" length barrels and 46" length barrels for Steel Rammers. Have the forearms cut on those stocks so they fit the 46" length barrels and no Rammer Pipe inlets. That way the stock can be used for either by cutting it off for the shorter barrels.

Have it inletted for the P1755 "flatter" bottom lock plate.

Hmmm....how about another stock that would fit the Indian P1740 and P1742 muskets w/banana shaped lock plate inlet and wood rammers? Or do most people order these style muskets with Steel Rammers?

Gus

 

[Michael76]

Thank all for your responses , I very much appreciate it!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Does he have any kind of inletting pre-done for the Rammer Pipes? (Last time I saw one of his Bess stocks, they weren't, but I don't know if that has been changed.) Personally, I would specify NO Rammer Pipe inlets.

My reasoning is this, if your stock can fit more guns, they will sell quicker.
India muskets come in both 42" length barrels and 46" length barrels for Steel Rammers. Have the forearms cut on those stocks so they fit the 46" length barrels and no Rammer Pipe inlets. That way the stock can be used for either by cutting it off for the shorter barrels.

Have it inletted for the P1755 "flatter" bottom lock plate.

Hmmm....how about another stock that would fit the Indian P1740 and P1742 muskets w/banana shaped lock plate inlet and wood rammers? Or do most people order these style muskets with Steel Rammers?

Gus

So I HAVE the 1756 stock via Loyalist Arms LLC....see... ☺

I simply wonder of the folks that bought the LLP musket with India parts, would they want to inlet a lock? As the only way to do it would be to fill in the lock mortise on the master, and add some filler on the outside, and thus the finished product would have a big chunk of unchanged wood, so any lock could be inletted to the stock...., It's one thing if the touch hole isn't drilled but I think it's another when you have to match it up perfectly with an existing touch hole.

LD

 

[Artificer]

So I HAVE the 1756 stock via Loyalist Arms LLC....see... ☺

Dave,

As you know, that stock doesn't have the drop of the buttstock. Not sure if they could use your stock as a Master Pattern and then change the rear end for the lowered buttstock?

I simply wonder of the folks that bought the LLP musket with India parts, would they want to inlet a lock? As the only way to do it would be to fill in the lock mortise on the master, and add some filler on the outside, and thus the finished product would have a big chunk of unchanged wood, so any lock could be inletted to the stock...., It's one thing if the touch hole isn't drilled but I think it's another when you have to match it up perfectly with an existing touch hole.

LD

Dave,

I thought about having no lock inlet before replying earlier, so it could be used for all time period patterns, AS LONG AS someone uses a Steel Rammer.

But I already ruled that out, because I believe having no lock inlet would be a killer of sales for most folks. You know a lot more guys in re-enacting today than I do. Would most of them want a stock with no inlet?

Gus

 

[bjarard]

http://dunlapwoodcrafts.com/military-stocks#33
dunlap has two replacement stocks for Brown Bess

I tried to contact Dunlap regarding their BB stocks. Not a peep has been beard from them in over two weeks

 

[hawkeye2]

I had looked at Dunlap's BB stocks a number of years back and at that time he only offered 2. Both were for the Pedersoli Bess with one a duplicate of the original and the other with more drop for those who shot in matches and wanted the extra drop. I wouldn't take a chance they would work with any other Bess even with a lot of work.

 

[sportster73hp]

Would a stock from the rifle shop work? I was told they made them or had them made . If so the lock mortice could be left uncut. Might be worth a call.

 

[Artificer]

I had looked at Dunlap's BB stocks a number of years back and at that time he only offered 2. Both were for the Pedersoli Bess with one a duplicate of the original and the other with more drop for those who shot in matches and wanted the extra drop. I wouldn't take a chance they would work with any other Bess even with a lot of work.

I agree, BUT if Dunlap was given a stock made from an Indian one that came from a Dealer like Loyalist Arms (improvements included or not) and used as a new "Master Pattern Stock" for replication, it might work very well when careful consideration is taken into account for the Non Interchangeable Parts.

Gus

 

[hawkeye2]

What you say is true Gus but that's a big "if" and there are rumors going around the Association that he is looking to get out of the business.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

As you know, that stock doesn't have the drop of the buttstock. Not sure if they could use your stock as a Master Pattern and then change the rear end for the lowered buttstock?

Sure could.... as long as I altered the "master" stock before I handed it to them. Masters on the copying machines can have a LOT of wood putty and JB Wood Weld.

I thought about having no lock inlet before replying earlier, so it could be used for all time period patterns, AS LONG AS someone uses a Steel Rammer.

But I already ruled that out, because I believe having no lock inlet would be a killer of sales for most folks. You know a lot more guys in re-enacting today than I do. Would most of them want a stock with no inlet?

I think it would be a "killer" too... not just for the inletting but because the person inletting the lock would have to put it in and have the existing touch hole correctly line up with the pan too....., which is NOT for the novice or hobby builder.

Probably the best method would be to take the master stock, and fill in around the edge of the lock mortise a fraction of an inch, thus allowing the buyer to only need the removal of a small amount of wood to allow the lock to fit. Sort of a reverse idea to the Davis RPL locks that replace factory locks on TC's and Pedersoli's. The lock plates on the RPL series of flint-locks is just a teeny bit larger than the factory lock mortise, so it will when inlet fit flush.

ANOTHER problem is the brass hardware. I'm not sure that even from the same importer that the stuff is close from musket to musket. If you can't pre-inlet the lock sideplate and thumb escutcheon, plus trigger guard and butt plate...., I think that's a deal breaker. In fact..., they may be why it hasn't been done yet by Dunlap....

LD

 

[Artificer]

ANOTHER problem is the brass hardware. I'm not sure that even from the same importer that the stuff is close from musket to musket. If you can't pre-inlet the lock sideplate and thumb escutcheon, plus trigger guard and butt plate...., I think that's a deal breaker. In fact..., they may be why it hasn't been done yet by Dunlap....

LD

That's something I've thought about as well, because I've had some experience making some "Master Pattern" stocks. It would almost require someone working with an importer closely to examine a fair number of guns to come up the measurements from enough to make a blank with inletting undersize enough in many inletted areas to fit most guns.

Gus

 

[FlinterNick]

So the IMA Bess are all 3rd Model stocks, and the lock on the 3rd model Bess is even smaller than the SLP Bess and the SLP Bess lock is smaller than the LLP Bess lock or the India made copy of the LLP. Now IMA may be offering other stocks, but this was what I found a few months ago...



I was there at Dunlap several years ago as it's a short drive from my home, and the stock on the website at DUNLAP is for a Pedersoli, not an Indian Bess. It corrects the "drop" as well, for easier shooting, if you want or you can get a 100% copy of a Pedersoli stock ( I bought one as I have a Frankenbess project that one day I shall finish....)

They have a stock making machine, so I asked when I was there if they could make a copy of the India stock in maple or walnut, and they can, BUT there is a minimum order of stocks, and I didn't have the coin to invest. (iirc) the minimum order was a dozen, so I'd have to drop close to 2K to get a stock and then sell off 11 more... and that was a Pre-COVID price...OH and I'm unable to store 11 stocks at my house...

The procedure would be for me to strip off my India stock of all hardware, and fill in any areas with wood putty or epoxy, that I didn't want the machine to copy, so some carved areas I might want to do different. Then I would pay them and give them my modified India stock as a "master", and they would carve out the copies for me. And I would be in business.

The only problem is that not all India made Bess are the same, and IF I made the stocks too generic, then that would mean a lot more work to the buyers of the other 11 stocks....

and do I have them make the ramrod channel and hole for a wooden rammer or not ????

Hmmm... maybe I should call them and check on the current production price and minimum run. I might rethink going into the India stock replacement business...

LD

Restocking an Indian made Bess I would have have to just probably isn’t worth the time and costs.

Dave Keck of knob mountain can make your stock for you

As Dave said, most stocks out there from Dunlap or IMA are 2nd or 3rd models and Italian copies.

The Rifle Shopp’s first model Brown Bess stock is actually a blank with everything undersized, and it may work for you but you’ll need a lot of tools and experience for that project.

This is one reason why I tend to advise against Indian made arms (especially from middlesex trading). Is that you end Up putting a lot of customization into making the musket more authentic just isn’t worth it. You might as well just Shoppe around for a used long land or get a kit from Rifle Shoppe or Track of the Wolf.

 

[FlinterNick]

I agree, BUT if Dunlap was given a stock made from an Indian one that came from a Dealer like Loyalist Arms (improvements included or not) and used as a new "Master Pattern Stock" for replication, it might work very well when careful consideration is taken into account for the Non Interchangeable Parts.

Gus

Agree Gus.

I‘ve spoken to Dan at Dunlap about copying a long land stock in the past, he’s very hesitant to do it.

Stocking making is a dying art, there’s just so little money or profit in it, that most wont’ do the work

 

[FlinterNick]

Would a stock from the rifle shop work? I was told they made them or had them made . If so the lock mortice could be left uncut. Might be worth a call.

Yes, the Rifle Shoppe long land 1755 pattern will likely work, you’d need to give special attention to the breech area.

I would recommend Dave Keck, he has a Brown bess stock that he can cut for your barrel, that’s the way to go Personally, and everything else needs to be hand fitted. This is more accurately, probably your only option.