Brown Bess trade Gun

[Rod Lassey]

Exactly right as to the use of the Brown Bess (or any other ex-military gun) in the fur trade. Fur trade posts tended to issue surplussed muskets out for employee use----remember that the bulk of the engagés didn't own a personal firearm, for the most part, they couldn't afford one. And trade guns were just that, for trade.

Isaac Cowie mentions the use of a Brown Bess (still in flintlock) at Ft. Qu'Appelle in the 1860s. Here at Ft. Union, we have the historical record--Charles Larpenteur's journal specifically mentions the issuance of muskets (as opposed to trade guns or rifles) to fort employees, and also notes the paper cartridges and bayonets that went with them. Archaeological digs have found that of the non-NW gun/civilian gun parts found, the majority are US M1816 parts at Ft. Union, so we've a very good idea of just what those surplus muskets were. Of course, this would vary from fur company to fur company, if not post to post. I'm sure that they got whatever surplus guns were the cheapest at the time.

Rod

 

[pichou]

Of course bayonet is a dicey term in the fur trade, but there are certainly Brit/Canadian inventories that list muskets w/bayonet... I think at Ft. William and others.

But Henry the Younger definitely states he issued "a new gun" to a engagé that was stolen from its case on the wall, and replaced with a stick. There are plenty of other in-country refs that sound more like trade guns were being issued as needed to voyageurs.

Henry himself had a double gun on Red River, until it blew up.

 

[Rod Lassey]

Yes, don't want to confuse the bayonet that mounted on a musket as opposed to the "bayonet" that referred to that large knife/small spear point.

I do think that NW guns were at times issued to voyageurs/engagés if there wasn't an alternative. But, then they would have to be sold as used guns--or loaned out. There's alot more references to loaning guns to Indians (credited against next season's catch) in the Canadian trade than the US trade, for some reason.

Rod

By the way, Alexander Henry the Younger rates as on of the best fur trade reads, in my opinion. I read the Coues edition some time ago, but last year treated myself to the Gough edition (Christmas present for myself, the best kind :wink --what a difference! I have NO idea what Coues thought he was doing by his heavy-handed editing of Henry, it certainly didn't improve the original text.

 

[pichou]

Yeah they had different ideas of what editing was back then :youcrazy:

Masson, Coues, Lamb, Stewart Wallace... all the old guys. Compare that to George Nelson's "My first years... " where they give both versions side by side!

I would like to read the Gough version!

Anyway, I think the idea of new and used was different back then. I think it was Rod. McKenzie who said he had to peel the remains of the covers off his rusty trade gun shipment when he got to Athabasca. :shocked2: Makes you wonder what the diff. was between a fur post and a Bent and Dent :haha:

 

[benvenuto]

The British also sold 350,000 besses to Spain (Juan L Calvo, "Armamentos de Municion en las Fuerzas Armadas Espanolas") between 1833-1840, and also large numbers to the Mexican Army.
They were still considered servicable, but perhaps 2nd rate military weapons.

Another nail(brass tack?) in the bess trade gun coffin? :hmm: