Brown Bess trade Gun

[weekilt]

So was there really such a thing as a Brown Bess Trade Gun?
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=117590852

I like the idea.

 

[cowpoke1955]

Sure is! I saw one on the movie "Hawkeye" :rotf: Dixie sells them. They are neat.

 

[Okwaho]

So was there really such a thing as a Brown Bess Trade Gun?
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=117590852

I like the idea.

The so called Brown Bess "trade gun"exists ONLY in the fantasy world of modern reenacting.While I will freely agree that like so many other objects of the white man's world there were probably a few Brown Bess muskets which found their way into Indian hands, they were certainly NOT trade guns. The Indian hunter not unlike his white counterpart preferred a gun which was reliable,sturdy,somewhat flashy and LIGHT.The English trade guns of the 18th century aka known as "Carolina Guns" were simply cheap English fowlers and were later classified as Type G guns by T M. Hamilton and others.These guns suited the Indians and were also sold to less than affluent Whites who couldn't afford the fine English fowlers owned by the planter aristocracy of Virginia and other more affluent Whites.The so called Brown Bess trade guns are in the same category of fantasy guns as the short barreled Bess "ranger guns" about which much comment has been made ad nauseum ad finitum. :yakyak: :blah:
Tom Patton

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Glad you got to this one first Tom. I still remember the last time it came up. I ain't agonna touch it with a ten foot pole! :surrender:

 

[tg]

"Glad you got to this one first Tom. I still remember the last time it came up. I ain't agonna touch it with a ten foot pole!"


You cut about eight feet off that pole and you would have a canoe pole :wink:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Ain't goin' there either! :shake:

 

[jdstrang]

Mebbe y' kin jus' toss a BLANKET over it!! :haha:

 

[No Powder]

You cut about eight feet off that pole and you would have a canoe pole

Should I cone the end to make it easier to load? :wink: :haha: :rotf:

 

[tg]

gKoch, we are not poking fun at you, there are just some questions that have come up a lot and get a lot of jesting and attempts at humour going, usually the topic is history vs, everything else, often it is like an inside joke please don't take offense sometimes we are just like a bunch of school kids...did I say sometimes?
Okwaho was kind enough to give you a straight answer, his knowledge is matched by few.

 

[Many Klatch]

There was a study made of the round balls that were excavated from the sand at the old Fort Michelemackinac (spelling?). Out of hundreds of lead balls that they measured the majority were in the .44 to .54 caliber size. There were very few French Military sizes .65 to .69 and there was only one or two British Military size balls .69 to .75. So I think that there were probably no large bore trade guns in use. The bigger bores eat powder and lead and if you are a hunter that only gets to the trading post once or twice a year, then you are going to want to conserve those expensive and non-replaceable items when out in the bush.

Many Klatch

 

[tg]

From some point in time the NA's did express a desire for a lighter gun, pre F&I some wanted guns such as were made by the French according to English factors when placing orders, some think this is what is behind the Wilson type gun shown in Hamiltons book

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I'll bet they sold 'em by the canoeful.... :rotf:

 

[nkvd]

Hello gkoch

Anyways,to get back to what you asked about,if you can pick any Pedersoli muskets cheap grab
em,fantasy or not they are great for hunting and or the range! :thumbsup:

Cheers,Rob

 

[J.D.]

The so called Brown Bess "trade gun"exists ONLY in the fantasy world of modern reenacting.
Tom Patton

Iftheydahadem, theydausedem. :hmm: :bull:

 

[tg]

"Iftheydahadem, theydausedem.'

you put the Pearl in the coconut and cast it to the swine...you put the pearl in the coconut and cast it to the swine....baybie......baybie

 

[trodgers]

If they would have had them they would have used them...absolutely true! However the majority of firearms historians seem to agree that they didn't have them, and therefore probably didn't use them. :wink:

The original question as posted.."So was there really such a thing as a Brown Bess Trade Gun?"
Answer: Nope.

T

 

[pichou]

Iftheydahadem, theydausedem. :hmm: :bull:

Readers of the MOFTQ will know, of course, that they did have and use Brown Besses in the Fur Trade. India Pattern though, not dinky little tacked up jobs like that.

Manuel Lisa carried a India Bess. :hmm:

 

[LaBonte]

Thank you Picho and if you study the 19the Century SW Fur/Indian Trade you will find quite a number of Besses (both older models as well as Indai patterns)used both by whites, meztizos, and Indians.....

Were they specifically built as "trade" guns? no but they were traded for so??? I've never seen a trade list with type D, G, etc, guns yet those terms are widely used and understood by modern students

Semantics is a wonderful thing taint it.......

 

[pichou]

I think the implication of the MOFTQ article is that they were used by traders and their employees but not really a trade item.

And definitely a surplus item, not made for the Indian trade.

Those letter designations are from Hamilton, I believe?
Archeologists have some nutty terminology! That is because they have to describe and classify what they find (and publish it) before anyone can tell them the larger historical context of what they found.

That's why all fixed blade knives in fur trade archeology are called "case" knives. :cursing: :youcrazy:

 

[Mulebrain]

There has to be!

I traded my Brown Bess for a Northwest trade gun :thumbsup: