Brown Bess

[Brasilikilt]

Hey all

After going to a couple rendezvous in my kilt, I'm thinking about going for the whole Scottish theme.
Since the Scotsman historically seem to never carry any kind of rifle, I am leaning towards a musket......probably a Brown Bess.
Nowadays muskets seem to be very high priced in comparison to rifles, so a musket worth shooting has seemed to be far out of my price range.
Just this morning I see this website,[url] http://www.militaryheritage.com/muskets.htm[/url] and suddenly a Brown Bess seems to be a more reachable goal, as my wife tells me over my shoulder "You're not thinking of buying another flintlock, are you?"
I guess I'll have to make and sell quite a few powder horns before I can afford one

Anyways..........I'm reading about them, and their touch holes aren't drilled, and they state that they wash their hands of any liability if something goes wrong during the proofing process.

Has anyone bought a musket from this company? Will the thing blow up if I try to shoot it?
For this price, would I simply be buying a length of pipe slapped onto a slab of crappy "walnut"??

Thanks for any help or advice

Iain

 

[Rebel]

You might want to check out either Middlesex Village Traders or Loyalist Arms. They carry the India made Besses and stand behind theirs. In fact, Middlesex guarantees their locks for life.

 

[Okwaho]

Are you interested in pre or post Culloden and are you thinking of doing Scottish in America and if so how early and in what venue?
Tom Patton

 

[Russianblood]

I haven't heard many good things said about them. The other two mentioned, Loyalist Arms (another Canadian distributor that doesn't accept credit cards) and Middlesex Village Trading Company (an American distributor that does take credit cards) have a better reputation. And MVTC sells their military muskets with sling and bayonet included in the price.

 

[BCarp]

Of the three, Loyalist Arms gets the gun components from India, and assembles and inspects the finished products in their shop in Canada. A liitle bit better quality control results....

If you're going for a pre-1746 Highland impression, a clan "gentleman" who could afford his own firearm would most likely have a hunting piece, not a military musket. A Jacobite clansman of the `45 Rebellion who was issued a musket would generally have a French weapon (probably M1717 or earlier). This gun would be a good choice:[url] http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/1690'sfrmarine.html[/url]
A soldier in a British army Highland Regiment would of course carry the Land Pattern "Bess"....

 

[Brasilikilt]

Thanks guys.....your replies have certainly been informative!
What I'm looking for is a musket which will be versatile for many different situations. I do like the french musket, and another guy into the Scottish "thing" was saying pretty much the same deal about the French and civilian muskets being more appropriate for the Jacobite period.
I also read that Dutch club butt fowlers were popular.
I also really like the dog lock musket and might go for that instead, but they ALL are pretty freaking cool :grin:

I'm thinking of going for Scottish in America. My local Fort Vancouver had a decent amount of gaelic speaking employess (most likely irish), so there is documented evidence of a celtic presence here in the pre 1840's Northwest. Also there is a Jacobite group here in the works, so I might check em out to see what they're like.

I have a strong British ancestry, so I've always liked Brown Bess muskets and always wanted one, I also got to handle one a couple weeks ago and really like the chunky feel of it as well as the big bore.
It would also be nice to have one so I can shoot the Trade gun/Smoothbore trails. Since I'm not going for total hardcore authenticity, a Bess should work just fine.
When it all comes down to it, I just want to wear a great kilt around, and carry a big freakin' gun

 

[Wes/Tex]

In the Highlands of Scotland, there was also a high number of Spanish weapons due to the Spanish interference in 1715. Sadly, Spanish guns are hard to find. Narragansett used to offer an Escopeta with migulet lock, but since the new takeover things have gone south, big time. Track has had a couple M.1752 Spanish muskets over the last few years. Not sure what the origin is for these muskets since Track is a little unsure, or so it seems. Think they may have been part of a commerative deal but have found no positive info.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

" Not sure what the origin is for these muskets since Track is a little unsure, or so it seems."

The Rifle Shoppe.[url] http://www.therifleshoppe.com/Catalog.htm[/url]

 

[musketman]

Anyways..........I'm reading about them, and their touch holes aren't drilled, and they state that they wash their hands of any liability if something goes wrong during the proofing process.

They don't drill the touch hole to get around gun shipping laws (local and international), it's not a working gun if the hole isn't drilled...

There is a depression (pre-drilled) where the touch hole goes and yes, the gun will work, a few members on this forum have shot them...

Here is a good thread that covers the pro's and con's of the muskets in question...
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/32379[/url]/

 

[scroggwe]

I just recently bought one Military Heritage's British Doglock Muskets. I drilled the touchhole through and it shoots just fine. It has the best sparking lock of any of my flintlocks.

The downside was that the wooden ramrod was broken in shipment by UPS. I called Military Heritage for a replacement ramrod. They eventually sent me one, but it took about 4 phone calls and two months to get the replacement part. Apparently, they don't stock replacement parts.

 

[Brasilikilt]

Thanks Bill

I'm probably going to either go through military heritage or Middlesex village.
It's good to hear someone had good experiences with the muskets

Take care

Iain

 

[Okwaho]

You might ask these vendors about the weight of their guns.The Independent Company at Ft. Loudon bought some long land patterns{I believe from Dscriminating General} and they are extremely heavy. If I were using one of their guns I would take off a lot of wood.There was a post some time back on one of these boards from a British reenactment group comparing repro long land patterns{I don't recall the supplier}with an original gun and as I recall the new gun was pretty close but probably heavier.Some,if not all, of these suppliers are selling guns stocked in teak wood which I believe is denser and heavier than European walnut or beech.The ones at Loudon weighed aboit 10-12 lbs by my guestimating.
Tom Patton

 

[David Teague]

Hello All,

As a Scottish Reenactor and living historian let me say a few things.

Choose a:

Time frame

Location

Social status

before buying anything....

I don't know how PC you want to be but a "Front Ranker" of the 1745 is a spendy person to protray. You can drop $3000 up doing it right... and that's just for a good PC sword, targe, pistol, and clothing of the proper social standing (just under the Clan Laird). A nice custom built fowler just ups the cost.

I protray a Jacobite mid ranker, much cheaper to do, plain wool coat, waistcoat, simple bonnet, an
"issued" 1717 French musket, belly box, bayonet and a French made Eppee du Solat. (it was the 1715 revolt where the the base clansmen had basket hilts, targes,and muskets... but almost all were taken by the British goverment after the disarmament act of 1728.)In the 45, the mid ranker did not have any of his own weapons other than a dirk, they did not carry the Scottish Targe or basket hilt.

In the 1840 US a Scottish ex-pat would be using guns from a US source... not a 100 year old Brown Bess.

Read up a bit, choose a place to be, buy right the first time.

Cheers,

David Teague

P.S Run screaming from H.M... they don't stock parts. MVTC is good people to deal with. So is LA, but they don't do credit cards.

P.P.S The reason those Besses are so heavy is 3 fold. They use teak, which is a heavier wood than walnut, they dont taper the barrels, and they is wood left where it doesn't need to be. The French muskets are much closer to proper shape IMO than the Besses.

DT

 

[BCarp]

David is exactly right. For more info on the various levels of Highland portrayals of the `45 period, check out this article:
[url] http://members.tripod.com/clan_donnachaidh/impression.html[/url]

 

[Antelope Bill]

Hi,
As a 30 plus year reenactor with 5 time periods under my belt, I strongly recommend holding off buying a musket until you fined the unit that you want to join. They will have a desired/ prefered weapon for the unit. That way you may avoid buying the wrong weapon and having to trade it for something else. Just a thought!
Antelope Bill

 

[dkloos]

Can anyone give me a few links to some Scottish reenacting groups in the Northeast? I'd like to look into maybe switching my persona. Thanks

 

[BCarp]

Can anyone give me a few links to some Scottish reenacting groups in the Northeast? I'd like to look into maybe switching my persona. Thanks

I have the honour to command this one:
[url] http://clan_donnachaidh.tripod.com/[/url]

We have members from NY, PA, OH, and New England....

Brian Carpenter

 

[dkloos]

Oh thats your unit? I was just on their website this afternoon admiring the clothing that I might soon get to wear. Thanks for the link good Sir.

 

[BCarp]

Oh thats your unit? I was just on their website this afternoon admiring the clothing that I might soon get to wear. Thanks for the link good Sir.

Aye, and always looking for new recruits...!

 

[dkloos]

Any events in NJ?