buckshot loads

[daniel collums]

i would like to know if many folks have used buckshot in their shotgun and how well they pattern with it. i want a shotgun but dont bird hunt much but would use it for deer hunting if it done good with buckshot.

 

[varsity07840]

IMHO, buckshot is a crippler, given BP velocities
and cylinder bores. I wouldn't use it in a smokeless gun.

Duane

 

[Britsmoothy]

Just put a ball in it.....be easier!

Brits.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Buckshot is one of those subjects that's tough to give straight answers to. In an ideal world, buckshot actually works great due to a phenomenon called "hand-printing", which is misleading but tries to get the point across that if the shot hit fairly close together they become more effective than the individual balls could. What it means is that the hydrostatic shock of each ball overlaps it's neighbor and the total creates a large tissue damaged area. The real problem with the whole process is that it's virtually impossible to get tight patterns with muzzleloaders at anything more than very, very close range. It's definitely easier with modern loading components for smokeless powder firearms but is still chancy without extensive pattern testing. All-in-all, it's not worth all the time and expense of working out the problem. There've been all types attempts to make gadgets that'll hold shot together at longer ranges. Most never worked out and many that did have been abandoned over the years. In the long run, you'd be better off working up a PRB load for a smooth bore to use for larger game hunting.

 

[BrownBear]

I played with "buckshot" a bit in a CYL bored 12 gauge and a Bess. I put "buckshot" in parentheses because I was using cast 32 and 36 cal balls rather than hardened commercial buckshot. I've also used a lot of modern buckshot ammo for called coyotes rather than deer.

Basically, they're really different beasts. With chokes, buffers, hardened shot and load testing, I have been pleasantly surprised with how far away we've been able to hit the yodel dogs. But that's different than deer. We were willing to accept wounded coyotes, so long as they just got the hell away from our place. But in fact they were pretty easy to stop or kill outright with single hits. To assure lethal hits on deer, I'd want a lot more hits and have to shoot a lot closer to get them.

I could probably improve on the range I was getting with the MLs through load development, but probably not by all that much. Using an arbitrary number like three hits to assure kills on deer, I'd have to say my loads and guns couldn't be depended on past 20 yards or so. If careful loading and choice of components stretched that to 25 yards I wouldn't be too surprised, but I sincerely doubt I could push it past 30 yards. Long as a guy respected the limits of the loads, I don't think he' have any problems.

At one time there were places that required buckshot for deer, so switching to a single ball wouldn't be an answer. But I'd sure prefer to use the single ball rather than rely on buckshot.

 

[crockett]

I live in the deep south with lots of dog hunters that use buckshot. We've knock around the issue quite a bit. It's been used in Africa by white hunters to stop a charging lion so at CLOSE range-pretty devastasting.
I'm not sure how well it would work in a muzzle loader. In order to understand why- you first have to consider how buckshot works in a modern shell. The whole deal with buck shot is to have a tight group- say 9 pellets covering your hand at 30 plus yards. Put a load of that into the neck of a deer and the spine and arteries will be hit and you get a dead deer pronto, but here's the thing.....the selection of the size of the pellet relates to how the pellets are stacked in the shell and how well the layer of pellets passes through the choke. If the load is too loose it loses its integrity and if too tight the choke squeezes everything and you get a poor pattern. Poor patterns are what give buck shot a bad name. You select pellet size not on effectiveness- they all kill about the same (1, 0, 00, 000) but rather you select pellet size on what patterns best.
So...how do you 'stack" buckshot pellets when loading a muzzle loading shotgun? Beats me- I don't know but I would suspect it is well impossible and the patterns will be poor- making buckshot a crippler. I agree with what has been posted- a single round ball is probably better and use the single ball for a heart/lung shot.

 

[daniel collums]

well the talk of buckshot being a crippler is about the same as saying a black powder rifle is a crippler. you got to use a rifle shooting a patched round ball with caution just as you use a shotgun with buckshot or as for that any gun. i have used #1 & #00 in my 12ga. and have cleanly killed many deer at close range, but thats with a full choke using modern ammo. i know guys around me that use the newer black powder shotguns for turkey hunting and have heard of some very long kill shots. i think if a 12 ga. sxs would hold a good pattern out to 30 yards it would work fine because one of my best hunting spots has a point blank range out to about a 20 to 30 yards. the problem i have hunting this spot with a rifle is when the deer come into this funnel they are running from hounds at top speed and hitting them with a roundball is just luck in my hands. i really would like a percussion 12ga. sxs but the only game i would hunt with it would be deer but if it won't shoot buckshot with a descent pattern i don't want it, and thats the only question i asked if anyone that had one had tried buckshot in one and what the outcome was. thanks to the answer i got that responded to my question.

 

[BrownBear]

...but if it won't shoot buckshot with a descent pattern i don't want it....

The unanswered question for you (and for me) is what affect chokes would have. There are Pedersoli SxS 12's with chokes all over the place, or at least that's what is seems like when a guy is looking to buy one with CYL bores. Chokes make a huge difference with buckshot in modern shotguns, so I'm betting they'd help a lot in a ML.

Hardened buckshot, rather than the soft cast balls I was using, would help too. Ballistic Products has a comprehensive line of buckshot, including a whole lot of sizes you never see anywhere else. It's good stuff in my experience. It strikes me that with careful choices of buck size to allow "tiered" loading in your ML bore, and maybe with some buffer of some sort, you ought to be able to find a combo close to modern gun performance for a choked muzzleloader.

Keep us posted if you carry this further and start playing with components and chokes. The yodel dog shooter in me is real interested, even if I never pop a load at deer.

 

[hanshi]

Buckshot can be okay for certain critters and in certain situations. However, a single ball works much better and can be very accurate in the deer woods. I use a single ball in my smoothbore and it drops deer DRT.

 

[Roguedog]

This is a one off deal but I once shot a deer with my Pedersoli 12 gauge double and it dropped the deer where it stood. A very efficient and humane kill. My load was about 80 grains of powder and ten 00 buck pellets. My range was less than 30 yards. When the smoke cleared, the deer was lying right where she stood. About 8 of the pellets hit the chest area and all of the shot was found on the offside shoulder under the skin. Upon autopsy, the internal damage to the chest area was devastating. I don't normally hunt with buckshot but if one is careful about their range, it will certainly do the job! For me and my gun, under 30 yards is the ticket. I was also shooting this through a modified choke.

Jeff

 

[daniel collums]

thanks for your reply, i am going to get me a sxs and try some different loads just to see. one of my friends told me about putting the buckshot in a roll that you put coins in and putting cornmeal in with it and had very good results out to 45 yards using #4 buckshot and #1 mixed using 80grs of powder.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Played with nine 0.315" balls in a 12 bore. Poor man's m/l Uzi.

Note that it is illegal for big game hunting in NY. Sure wakes up a pile of cans 25 yards downrange, though.

 

[Supercracker]

Please note, this is asking, not arguing.

The consensus seems to be that buckshot works at close range and with a tight pattern. If you have to keep a hand sized pattern and have to be fairly close, what advantages does it offer to using a large PRB? To me it seems like if you'll hit it with a tight pattern of 00 then you'd hit it with a .700" RB too, and I doubt anyone can argue the thumpiness of a big RB.

 

[BrownBear]

...a hand sized pattern....

In my original post I made passing reference to "Using an arbitrary number like three hits to assure kills on deer...."

I'm the furthest thing from a buckshot expert, but in the "classic" literature about the stuff, that's been the arbitrary number of hits in the chest used as the minimum standard for sure kills.

Speaking as one who is forced by terrain and local conditions to take a lot of moving shots at deer, there are times when buckshot would be a huge advantage over single ball. I pass up a lot of close running shots with single ball that would be dirt easy with buckshot. I've made more than my fair share of running shots with PRB while never wounding a deer and seldom missing, that's seasoned with the restraint to pass up a whole lot more shots. Many of those passed shots would have been dirt easy, as I said, with buckshot.

Dunno for sure, and I'm being theoretical and probably heretical. But within the range that I could put 3 or more theoretical buckshot in the chest of a theoretical running deer I couldn't shoot with a single ball, according to the guys who used to use buckshot a lot, that would do the job. :wink:

 

[crockett]

Supercracker- the issue of buckshot always stirs up a hornet's nest but this is how I see it. If you are in a tree stand and have a couple of clear shooting lanes and the deer is still or moving slowly, you can take a well aimed rifle shot in the heart lung area- which is usually visible from a tree stand.
If the deer is running, and you and the deer are both on the ground, the lower half of the deer may be obstructed by underbrush. A single bullet or ball could be deflected. If you try for a neck shot, then you still have the problem of a single ball- not much chance of hitting the spine, etc. With buckshot- let's say 9 pellets within about a 10" circle at 30 yards, a pellt or two could be deflected but enough will hit the target to do the job. So...buckshot is sort of a special-use type choice.
As I said, I don't have any experience using buckshot in a muzzle loading shotgun- a whole world to explore. Could you place the buckshot in some sort of a paper shot cup with a buffering compound? Remove a choke tube to load and then replace the choke tube? Again, I don't know.
However, I've often thought about the two instant shots- if good patterns could be obtained, a muzzle loading shotgun would be on par with a modern shotgun- or at least pretty close.

 

[Woods Dweller]

Back in 1978, I got a CVA 12 Ga shotgun, I read somewhere that shot was made by, pouring melted lead through a metal screen that was held over water. I made # 8 shot this way, The lead would look like small tear drops. Larger screen would give larger shot. I did hunt with this home made shot and it worked well.

 

[Woods Dweller]

Question: What Cal solied ball can I use in my 12Ga shotgun? & where can I get this solied shot?
Thanks guys.

 

[BrownBear]

Could be a range of sizes, depending on your actual bore diameter, presence of chokes, and patch thickness. I've seen everything from .662" to .715" used in a 12 gauge.

My own limited shooting in my Pietta SxS with CYL barrels and no chokes has been with .690" balls and .018 patches. Nice firm fit with no monstrous effort to get them started down the bore. More shooting and load develop required though before I'd think of using it for deer. As far as "groups" go right now, I think I can get a tighter one with a single charge of 9 buckshot than I can manage with 9 single shots using one ball at a time. :rotf:

Forgot to add this: Here is where I get my round balls when I want to try a new size. Once I find what I want, then I buy a mold.

 

[Roguedog]

My reasoning for loading buckshot was to load one barrel of my double gun with a turkey load, the other with a buckshot load for deer. Where I was hunting I knew either shot was gonna be close. It was equal opportunity on who showed up first.

Jeff

 

[BrownBear]

Makes sense to me.

Of course I have to my "credit" a nice 3-point (8-point Eastern count) Sitka blacktail taken at about 10 yards with a load of #6's to the base of the skull.

You never know what will walk up to a duck blind, and it sounds the same for turkey.