buckshot loads

[Wes/Tex]

If you have to keep a hand sized pattern and have to be fairly close, what advantages does it offer to using a large PRB?

The 'hand print' quote I made is a recent term coined to illustrate how multiple balls deliver shock to a live target. Basically, the results might be similar with a large ball vs. multiple smaller balls, the idea noted in the original article was that several hits around the chest area of the target (in the case of the article, wild, feral mules out west) performed better than .30-30 soft points. What must be remembered was that these guys were using modern shotguns with shotcups, possibly even buffered loads, and choked barrels. The result was very effective loads which are extremely difficult to duplicate with black powder smooth bores with out using modern components. The comparison is a bit confusing, matching modern and traditional gun types with results.

 

[Woods Dweller]

Thank you Hank, Just what I wanted. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

The blackpowder shotgun is not nearly as efficient as today's modern shotguns with modern shotgun ammo. Buckshot will probably work for deer if you jump one but I would just lead a bore sized round ball instead. I have some experience with buckshot and blackpowder but in one of my custom built pistols to demonstrate the versatility of the smoothbore. I used two thick cardboard wads over the powder, dropped 12 .32 caliber pistol balls, then put in another cardboard wad on top and seated firmly. I ended up with half decent results from the pistol and you could get more range out of it if you are using the long gun but being the bp shotgun usually isnt choked your will be spreading seed in a field. My advice:

Get a .50 cal/32 gauge gun or bigger and load it with a single ball for big game but you have the option to load birdshot for vermin.

 

[daniel collums]

i got to shoot a black powder shotgun for the first time yesterday. The gun had been loaded with turkey shot #5 I think and 80 grs of 2f black powder. The recoil was like getting kicked by a mule. The shotgun wasn't a sxs like i want but a single shot (one of them non-speakable type guns with a extra full turkey choke). After the first shot we loaded it with #4 buckshot(the only buckshot we had on hand and only enough for one shot)the turkey shot held a great pattern at the 40 yard target putting over 23 pellets in the head neck area turkey target.The buckshot load was shot at a 30 yard target i put 14 pellets in the load and 9 hit the deer size target and 6 went into the heart/lung kill zone, while that would have took out the deer i would have to do a lot more load testing in that gun before i hunted with it, my buddy has let me use it to try deer hunting with if i can work out a good deer load. This type gun has a recoil that just makes it not fun at all to shoot.I still would like to get a sxs but its going on the back burner for now.

 

[BrownBear]

The gun had been loaded with turkey shot #5 I think and 80 grs of 2f black powder. The recoil was like getting kicked by a mule.

That really makes me wonder how much shot you used. An 80 grain charge with a 90-grain measure of shot is a pussy cat in my Pietta 12 SxS. but recoil goes up the scale fast with larger shot charges because it's such a light gun. The heaviest shot charge I'll use is 1 3/8 oz.

 

[Roguedog]

Yeah, I typically max out at 1 1/4 oz of powder with equal volume of shot. I might bump the shot charge up to 1.5 oz during turkey season. Even at a 1.25 oz charge, recoil is noticeable but not unpleasant. The again, recoil, like pain, is subjective.

Jeff

 

[Zonie]

Ahhh, I don't think you really meant to say you loaded 1 1/4 ounces of powder, did you?

That would be a 547 grain powder charge ! :shocked2:

1 1/4 Drams would only be 34.1 grains of powder so that doesn't sound right either.

What size was the powder charge in grains?
Curious minds want to know.

 

[daniel collums]

a single shot knight will rock your world. the gun is way to light.

 

[Drago]

Just a reminder, which you probably know, but you can only use round ball in a cylinder bore or it could destroy the barrel.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Respectfully disagree. If you can press it in the muzzle by hand the blackpowder can get it out OK.

Just don't screw in a tight choke tube on a barrel so equipped after loading without one in place.

 

[theoldredneck]

Used buckshot for years when hunting with dogs shooting modern shotguns. Prefer cylinder bore up to improve cylinder. My question is instead of buckshot could you use multiple balls of barrel caliber? For example in my .56 caliber smooth bore load one patched round ball and then two or the unpatched with a patched ball on top. I can see from pressure charts what one would run and understand that the more weight you add the greater the pressure. I also know the odds of a good hit increase with number of projectiles.

 

[BrownBear]

Dunno about smoothbore, but to 50 yards in a 45 cal, double balls hit almost touching each other. Check out the thread on it in the Hunting section.

Interesting question, but I have notaclue.

Here is the double ball thread.

 

[theoldredneck]

Doubt a smooth bore will be that close but will see what it will do this weekend weather permits. Thanks

 

[Drago]

I guess if it goes in it will come out.

 

[Roguedog]

Yeah Zonie, I think I mispoke. What I was trying to say is that I use the same volume measure for both shot and powder. My shot charge is 1 1/4 oz with an equal volume of powder taken from the same measure. Thanks for the correction.

Jeff

 

[theoldredneck]

Played with multiple round balls loaded different ways in my .56 smooth bore barrel. Used 2 and 3 balls with both patch and cup. The paper cups work well with shot but did not do as well with large lead balls from .395 to .530. Patched large .530 worked best but were not consistent. The .50 caliber rifled barrel did better with 2 patched and loaded one over the other at 50 yards they almost touched sometimes. Smooth barrel never did that well. Will stay with just one projectile except for shot in the .56 .

 

[bpd303]

My adjustable powder-shot measure when set to 1 1/4 oz of shot throws 3 drams of 2f goex or 82 grains.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

In an ideal world, buckshot actually works great due to a phenomenon called "hand-printing", which is misleading but tries to get the point across that if the shot hit fairly close together they become more effective than the individual balls could. What it means is that the hydrostatic shock of each ball overlaps it's neighbor and the total creates a large tissue damaged area.

Yes and No.

No, in that you're not getting hydrostatic shock from muzzleloaders shooting buckshot. A 00 buckshot pellet is around 59 grains (depending on pure lead or alloy) and to have any sort of HS you need 300 ftlbs. of energy at impact, and the projectile has to penetrate at least 12 inches. So that's a minimum impact speed of 1515 fps (note not muzzle velocity, but impact velocity). But, because projectiles quickly slow upon impact, you actually need more like 500 ftlbs or more, and that means a 00 Buck pellet has to be moving at around 1955 fps at impact to give you HS.

Yes, in that the simultaneous impact of the buckshot does cause "shock" but it's neuralogic shock. Some forensic research indicates that it's exponential in its effect on the nevous system and can throw the heart into atrial fibrulation as well as cause unconsciousness, even though the heart nor the brain are not actually damaged.

LD

 

[Wes/Tex]

Technically you'e absolutely correct but I think the shock effect may have damaging results at a lesser velocity. The best visible evidence I personally have is the photo results of the 1997 tests on percussion revolvers done to compare the results to modern handguns. The .31 Colt revolver fired a ball of 46 grains at 821fps velocity compared to the 59 grain ball of a, shall we call it 'standard' buckshot load. Granted, an average velocity for shot loads varies from about 950 to 1100fps, but the revolver test produced a penetration of 12.9 inches with a permanent stretch cavity of 6.3 inches & crush cavity of 1.5 inches. It's difficult to say what the actual expansion of the cavity was during passage of the ball but they usually run over 100% of the permanent resulting cavity.

I tried to point out I don't recommend buckshot loads in muzzleloaders because of the difficulty of achieving enough hits in the vital area of large game animals without resorting to all the modern components. Though a .33 caliber ball can't do the damage of a .45 , .50 or larger, the accumulative effect of the loads have proven deadly, though I admit, not necessarily in flint or percussion smoothbore.

 

[crockett]

What I can't figure out is why some white hunters in Africa would use a 375, etc to hunt lions but if they had to follow up a wounded lion in the bush they switched to a double barrel shotgun with buckshot. I don't want to start a big argument on this but it has been my understanding that buckshot loads WERE used by a lot of white hunters in Africa, whether they still are I have no idea. It seems these white hunters had money and could use any firearm they wished.