building a GPR kit ?'s

[ryzman]

hey rusty spur... another question for you and everyone. are you going to glass bed your barrel?

 

[kansas_volunteer]

I'd go with the #2 srews for the escutcheons found here: http://muzzleloaderbuilderssupply....a.cgi?cart_id=3680.2670*Iw3g44&product=screws

 

[Rusty Spur 82]

hey rusty spur... another question for you and everyone. are you going to glass bed your barrel?

I haven't even considered it.I don't for see any problems by not glass bedding.Although,I would like to hear the virtues of doing it to a traditional muzzle loader,if any.So,anybody,please feel free to chime in.
Rusty Spur

 

[Zonie]

If it were mine I would concentrate on doing the needed building to the very best of my ability.

I would consider using some modern thing like glass bedding only after shooting it and finding that the point of impact was all over the place because the barrel was loose in the stock.

Course, I'm old fashioned but the original guns weren't glass bedded so I see no reason for doing that to a reproduction.
Besides, it costs money and it serves for one more thing that can get screwed up while attempting to do it.

 

[Rusty Spur 82]

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[ryzman]

ya i wasnt sure if it was a necessary step in the build process.

 

[ebiggs1]

Mr. Zonie I am also considering browing my next project. I wonder if the Lyman lock can be browned or blued for that matter. Just messing with one a little makes me think not.
That may make an L&R lock mandatory.
Any thoughts?

 

[Zonie]

Sure you can brown the existing lock.

You will have to dis-assemble it.

The "case hardening", if it has it or the bluing, if it has that must be removed but this is a simple proceedure which can be done with one of the gun bluing removers like Birchwood Casey makes, with Naval Jelly or with some 600 grit wet/dry silicone carbide sandpaper.

On small parts like the lockplate and hammer (or cock) you can use Birchwood Casey Plum Brown to brown them.
If it is a Flintlock, you can also use the Plum Brown on the forward side of the frizzen even though PB is a hot treatment.
The temperature needed to make Plum Brown work is 265-285 degrees F which is far below the tempering temperature of the frizzen so if your careful it shouldn't damage the hardness.

A safer way for the frizzen is to use one of the cold browning solutions like Laurel Mountain makes. It will work very well for the lockplate and hammer too. It does require humidity to make it rust the parts like it should.

If you choose to brown these parts and your using the cold browning agent do your best to keep it out of the tumbler hole in the lockplate and the threads. The real rust buildup can damage the threads and the bearing surface for the tumbler.

With the Plum Brown method, protecting the threads is not as important because it is really so thin that the threads won't be damaged.

I should add: the BC Plum Brown will work on a polished surface (although it doesn't look right to me). The cold browning process works very poorly on a polished surface so if your going to use that process do not polish the metal.
The finish left by new 320 grit sandpaper is about as polished as it should be for the solution to "bite" in and rust evenly.

 

[Jeb]

Please let me know what time period are we talking about for a great plains rifle flintlock. and are there any books or websites I could find and original picture so I could duplicate a build? I am really wanting to build a flinter but feel a kit from Cabin Creek, TVM, or Jim Chambers is a little to advanced for my ability. so I wanted to try a Lyman GPR to start. Thanks

 

[ryzman]

i think the original Hawken rifles were percussion right? I dont think they made flinters... im probably wrong but ive been reading up on the stuff a little.

Examples

A Beautiful Build

 

[Rusty Spur 82]

ryzman,
Looks like you have been doing your homework.Thanks for sharing those links.I like the one that shows the different flavors of the Hawken.
Rusty Spur

 

[Rusty Spur 82]

Jeb,
I felt that I didn't want to spend a great deal of money on one of top of the line kits either so I went with the Lyman GPR percussion for my first build.That was a good choice.There certainly isn't anything wrong with the GPR.Lyman gives you a lot of wood to work with and it allows you to clean up mistakes along the way.And the best part is,these gentleman on this forum will be more then happy to help you along.No experience needed!
I am doing the best work that I can on this project and taking it slow and easy,a must for us first timers,and I am very happy with my results.When in doubt,ask!
Rusty Spur

 

[ryzman]

ya cost is a big factor in my build as well.
the GPR is accurate, inexpensive, and a kit.
it met all three important criteria for a black powder rifle i was in the market for. I have yet to see a bad review of the Lyman rifle kit and the firing of the completed product.
now for historical value,
the rifle Lyman is copying is a Hawken, and the earliest rifle they sold was a conversion from flint to percussion. They produced all kinds of percussion rifles in all different calibers and styles however i did not find any flinters. If you want to replicate a Hawken build a percussion rifle.
If you want a flintlock for sure then you wont be making a historically correct replica.
I could be wrong... please chime in if im giving bad information.
J

 

[silhouette4570]

jeb, probably the best book on the Hawkin rifle is "Hawkin Rifles The Mountain Man's Choice" by John D. Baird. First printing was in 1968. At the time, his book was the definitive work on the Hawkin Rifle, maybe still is, I don't know. In reference to the rifles of the St. Louis period, Baird says on page 9, " While no specimen of a flintlock Hawkin rifle is known to exist, there is every probability that the early Hawkin rifles were flintlocks. Flintlock rifles were common in the mountains as late as 1850, so this type of ignition was certainly not considered outmoded."

Baird has a seond Hawkin book, "Fifteen Years In The Hawkin Lode" In this book, on page 98, Plate 63, he mentions a fullstock Hawkin on display at the Smithsonian as having a "converted flintlock marked S. Hawkin, St. Louis."

 

[Jeb]

Thanks for getting back on this, so a flinter is okay to build just represents an early period on that rifle and then they were either made cap lock or modified to be a cap. I will look into those book suggestions thanks again

 

Here we go.I am trying to build my first kit gun ever and will need help along the way as I get my feet wet.I have begun by first laying out the butt of the stock so that I can shorten my trigger pull to 13-1/2 inches.So far,so good.It's slow cause I am doing it all by hand very cautiously.
My first question is: "1"- since I have to remove the nose cap and the entry tube,to brown them ,what can I use to remove the little pins holding it all together?I don't have a punch that size but I was thinking of using a finishing nail as a punch.
"2"- This front loader will be used for hunting so what stock finish should I use to protect it from the elements?
"3"- I am going to cold brown the barrel and all parts but I do not have a sweat box and not sure what is required.I do have a 30"x30" shower stall in the basement.Can I hang the barrel by the hooked breech and brown it or will that create a build up of browning solution at the muzzle?
Well,that will get me going for now.I think.I sure could use some good advice and I appreciate it.
Thanks in advance,
Rusty Spur.

With browning, true browning, humidity is the key. I built my GPR kit back in the 1980's, before I got mite confused in Massachusetts and came back home. Louisiana is widely known for its humidity.

I liberally greased the bore with axle grease. Then, plugged the muzzle and the nipple seat, so I could degrease the exterior of the barrel with scalding hot water and Dawn dishwashing liquid in my bathtub. Wearing insulated rubber gloves, I scalded the parts I wanted to brown three times. Next, I applied Dixie Gun Works browing solution and hung it all in my large bathroom window.

Once a good coat of rust was obtained, wearing rubber gloves, I used a degreased brass bristle brush to card the rust to an even coat. Then applied more DGW browning solution. Once I reached the coat of rust that I wanted, I scalded the barrel and added a water based oil to the bath. Murphy's Oil Soap works well, and I use it regularly on all my Blackpowder firearms.

I left the nose piece in the white, and the patina it has gained, over the years, makes it look like it is pewter.

They say the proof is in the pudding, so here are photos of Lucifer, my GPR kit gun:

CP

 

[pab1]

...are there any books or websites I could find and original picture so I could duplicate a build? .

Amazon has copies of the book The Plains Rifle by Charles E Hanson but they are a little spendy. I got lucky and found a copy for $3 at a used book store. IMO it has a lot of good info and also many B&W pics of original rifles.

Very nice work Claypipe! :hatsoff:

 

[Rusty Spur 82]

Claypipe,
Thank you for all the information and for the pictures of your pride and joy.I see that you added some of your own personal flavor to your build.I have my stock just about ready to stain but now I find myself staring at it and thinking about what can I do to give it a personality of it's own.Today,I may work on a sweat box so I can get started on the browning process,or I may just go ahead and use the shower stall in the basement.I just hate taking the chance of the barrel hanging in a way that it may fall and booger up the muzzle.The breech hook doesn't appear to be to good of a tie off point.
Good smoke,
Rusty Spur

 

[ryzman]

:thumbsup:

 

Amazon has copies of the book The Plains Rifle by Charles E Hanson but they are a little spendy. I got lucky and found a copy for $3 at a used book store. IMO it has a lot of good info and also many B&W pics of original rifles.

That is a great book. I should have mentioned it myself.

Claypipe,
Thank you for all the information and for the pictures of your pride and joy.I see that you added some of your own personal flavor to your build.I have my stock just about ready to stain but now I find myself staring at it and thinking about what can I do to give it a personality of it's own.Today,I may work on a sweat box so I can get started on the browning process,or I may just go ahead and use the shower stall in the basement.I just hate taking the chance of the barrel hanging in a way that it may fall and booger up the muzzle.The breech hook doesn't appear to be to good of a tie off point.
Good smoke,
Rusty Spur

As Pab1 pointed out, "The Plains Rifle" is great reference. And, was the inspiration for most of the modifications I did to my GPR kit, Lucifer.

Notice how I reshaped the comb of the stock. There was no stain applied, just four coats of hand rubbed Tru-Oil. I, also added a grease hole, using a spade bit in a brace and bit. The red stained ramrod was also inspired by this text.

My only lament is that I wasn't able to get a rock lock. The finished product is pretty as an angel and shoots like the devil. Hence the name, Lucifer. The first shot out of him split the short section of 2x4 I used for a target.

CP