Builds......where to start?

[Ben McCormick]

Hi all,

Hope this is the right spot to post this:

Brand new to the forum but not new to flintlocks. Grew up in Wayne County, PA behind a T/C Hawken 50. I've hunted with it quite successfully the past 15 years and still love it but I find myself wanting something more "meaningful"??? If that's the word

I'd like to build (well, most likely semi-build) a longrifle. I've compiled a list of specs the past few years and I'll be honest up front......my imaginary rifle will not be historically correct. Is that a sin?

The lines and shape of the Southern Mountain/Tennessee (SM/T) rifle stocks really catch my eye. However, so does the brass furniture on my T/C, unlike the iron furniture on the SM/Ts.

I hunt deer/black bear here in PA but someday I'd like to chase an elk or other big game so .50 or .54 would be preferable. However, I understand they're not common calibers in a SM/T.

That all being said........as far as lock, stock, and barrel are concerned--which do I start with first?

Deluxe siler, golden age, or late ketland with a rainproof pan?

I'd like to cut a cherry or maple blank off the farm and send it out to have it made into a SM/T but where would I send it?

Straight octagon barrel with a breech plug and tenons for ease and assurance of a good cleaning......also with a twist rate that maxi-hunter or buffalo bullets would prefer over PRB.


Other than not being HC, do any of you guys think there are functional problems/cons with this blueprint for a hunting scenario? Just looking for some advice on how and where to start.

I apologize about the length. Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to what knowledge some of you modern mountain men may impart.

Merry Christmas,
Ben from PA

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Lock, stock, and barrel. You're going to need them all before you can start so just get them all. Go with a swamped barrel. Buy a chambers flint lock, either an early Ketland or a colonial.. Get the hardest piece of wood you can find. Go with a .54 with around a 1 in 60 twist. Forget bullets and go with a round ball. I'd recommend an earlier styled gun with a broad flat buttplate. You'll probably ignore all of this, most first time builders do.

 

[Greg_E]

How are your wood working skills? I'd buy a kit so I know it could be built into a functional weapon, and then cut the tree and try to copy the stock. Not sure if Kibler will take your lumber and machine it, they might be worth contacting. I'd probably start with cheap parts from a Traditions kit and see if I was capable of getting things shaped and inlet so I wasn't out a lot of money if I failed and just had to build it the way the kit was supposed to be built.

 

[nchawkeye]

Here is the problem, for elk, you really should go with a .54 or a .58, assuming you want to shoot patched round balls...The design of the SMR does not lend itself to these larger calibers, in other words, it's gonna kick like the dickens...You would be much better served with an early Lancaster style or a Woodsrunner in these calibers...The weight of a Lancaster and wider butt plate will help with recoil,,The Woodsrunner is lighter, which makes it easier to carry...Check out Kibler Longrifles and Jim Chambers Longrifles, both make top of the line "kits"...

Then, build you another SMR in .40 caliber for squirrels...

 

[Freedom]

Sounds like you need a Kibler Colonial.. so much more enjoyable to load with round balls. So I too would ditch the bullet idea and just go with a bigger bore... 54 or 58.

 

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Well, you are in the right place to ask questions! I would start with a mostly-shaped stock, with barrel and ran rod channel/hole done by the gun company. Muzzle Loaders Building Supply, Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica, etc., all can help. Don't have the inlet for the lock done by the stock maker though. That inlet has to be made so that the pan lines up correctly with the flash hole in the barrel. That's one place that "close" is not good enough! Same with the lock matching with the barrel - you do not want even a wee gap between the two.
Good luck with your project, and just take one small step at a time. And do go with the .54 or .58.

 

[SOLANCO]

If you are going to stock it with wood you have not yet cut you are maybe 5 years out from finishing your rifle. No one is going to make you a stock from green wood. You could maybe find a mill that would kiln dry it for you. But I have never liked "cooked" wood.

Me? I'd cut the tree. Make planks. Sticker and stack them out of the rain. Walk away for 5 years. In the meantime build your rifle with a stock you don't care about with a view to replacing it in 5 years. And you will have some quality hardwood for other projects.

 

[TDM]

Kibler will gladly accept wood you provide for them. Jim will tell you how much wood to send if you wanted to go that route. All great advice above. Lots of really good kit makers to choose from. I would recommend a complete kit for your first build.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
If you cut your own wood it will have to dry it for years until the moisture level is around 7-9% unless you have a kiln drier. Dave Keck (www.knobmountainmuzzleloading.com) in Berwick, PA can inlet the barrel and profile it for you if you choose. Many of us have posted scores of threads on this forum showing how guns were stocked from rough blanks. Often the entire process. The search function will help you find them and in addition, buy Chuck Dixon's book "The Art of Making the Pennsylvania Longrifle". That should get you started in the right direction. New builders often buy straight skinny barrels because they are cheaper and they think easier to inlet. They then often end up with skinny, unbalanced, and awkward looking guns. Some manage it well but they are rare. A southern mountain style gun is not a good choice given your objectives.

dave

 

[waksupi]

I think a person should put together a couple kits, to get an idea of what is necessary to build a gun, before tackling a plank build. Fantasy guns tend to be a gem in the eyes of the builder at first blush, but in later years you just want to hide them so no one can see your first attempt.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Realistically, just buy a Kibler colonial kit in .58. It will do everything you require. AND you'll end up with something you can bear to look at when it'd done.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lot of good replies so far. As to where to start, I recommend evaluating your skills before doing anything. As for using your own wood, that would be nice but making sure it is well seasoned is critical. More better to buy something from someone like Pecatonica. It's yer gun, don't fret the hc/pc thing. But do pick a style that will be suited to what you are going to use it for. Sounds to me like you should consider a half-stock plains rifle (Hawken, Lemans, etc.) style in flintlock. Get only quality parts, especially don't cheap out on the lock.

 

[Greg_E]

Are we really saying that a 50 won't be big enough for elk? What speeds are these round ball going? I weighed mine a while ago and think I remember 177 grains. I'm guessing that around 1800 fps. This would put it at over 1200 foot pounds at the muzzle, and probably over 1000 at reasonable range. Is this not enough?

I say this because I know guys are dropping elk with 700 foot pounds (muzzle) air guns in 50 cal., over 1000 ft-lbs in 72 cal.

Now, all this said, I have not shot my "Hawken" over a chrono yet, so maybe I'm way off.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Are we really saying that a 50 won't be big enough for elk? What speeds are these round ball going? I weighed mine a while ago and think I remember 177 grains. I'm guessing that around 1800 fps. This would put it at over 1200 foot pounds at the muzzle, and probably over 1000 at reasonable range. Is this not enough?

I say this because I know guys are dropping elk with 700 foot pounds (muzzle) air guns in 50 cal., over 1000 ft-lbs in 72 cal.

Now, all this said, I have not shot my "Hawken" over a chrono yet, so maybe I'm way off.

I understand several western states require .54 and larger for elk.

 

[Greg_E]

I did not know that. A quick search said Colorado requires 50 cal conical or 54 cal round ball as minimum. It might be interesting to compare cased ammo requirements for energy compared to muzzle loader energy.

Strange, North Dakota has airgun allowances, and so does Idaho, Idaho is lower power than I would allow at 350 foot pounds. Airgun Hunting Laws by State | Pyramyd Air I can get that much out of my 357 Bulldog if I set it up for single or two shots from the charge. They did also specify minimum of 45 which means the stock 457 Bulldog will meet their requirements, pretty sure it will go 400 foot pounds without modification.

 

[Sean E Bug]

The first thing to buy is a set of plans. study them. nothing wrong about building a gun to suit your needs and tastes. that is exactly what gunsmiths were doing for their customers all those years ago. you need lock and barrel and a well dried piece of wood that has good grain flow through the wrist. shaping a gunstock is not that much work and is quite fun so please consider building from a blank. river valley gunstocks offer services for inletting the barrel and drilling the ramrod hole.

 

[billraby]

Why would you pay some to inlet the barrel and drill the ramrod hole? Nothing hard about doing that.

 

[MSW]

How are your wood working skills? I'd buy a kit so I know it could be built into a functional weapon, and then cut the tree and try to copy the stock. Not sure if Kibler will take your lumber and machine it, they might be worth contacting. I'd probably start with cheap parts from a Traditions kit and see if I was capable of getting things shaped and inlet so I wasn't out a lot of money if I failed and just had to build it the way the kit was supposed to be built.

Kibler will use a blank that you supply ... his work is first- rate, and (if i remember correctly) he will cut you a discount for supplying your own wood.

 

[rich pierce]

Same answers as on ALR forum. Without trying to offend, it seems you want to design your own rifle, which should be slim but of a large caliber, perhaps stocked in this or that, with brass furniture, and shoot a bullet. And you have no well-formed ideas or in depth knowledge of originals, so are asking around.

Note the responses fall into several categories but the most common category is “buy a well-designed kit that’s easy to assemble and is an established outstanding performer.”

I’m guessing you read gun magazines and are convinced that muzzle energy and downrange energy are key to killing deer and elk, and thus leads you to want a bullet-shooting barrel. You may believe that those gun writers know more than old boys who have killed a lot of big game with muzzleloaders and round ball.

You’ll continue to get various suggestions, but it’s unlikely you have the experience to design a nice longrifle from scratch at this point. With your current starting point, nobody can advise you well on this barrel or that, this lock or that. Obviously many locks and barrels work well.

 

[Patched]

Why would you pay some to inlet the barrel and drill the ramrod hole? Nothing hard about doing that.

How’s a guy gonna learn…and besides, when he comes back to this forum for advice we can spend 12 or 20 pages of arguing on the best way to solve his dilemma that none of us has ever seen...we can teach him…1) to go buy a gun or a kit
2) muzzleloading is mostly about arguing about…
a) methods
b) authenticity
c) who’s the smartest, bestest, most done it-est geezer
still alive to lie about it all.