Can the need to swab be fixed?

[Roughneck]

A well fitted (tight) patch, ball combination and a good clean burning powder in the right amount will allow you to shoot many rounds without having to swab.
On the other hand a loose patch/ ball with 100 grains ffg instead of 50 grains fffg (as an example) you will have fouled your bore to the point that a reload without swabbing will be difficult and at that point you would probably be shoving crud into your touchhole or drum.

I agree with WKD. I never swab between shots wether at the range plinking or shooting a match. My guns all shoot extremely well. I shot my 58 all day a couple weeks back and I use a .020 patch with Mr Flintlock lube and a .575 ball. Loaded the same from the first shot to the last shot.

 

[Van1955]

I shoot a match once a month and normally take home a few ribbons. Last month I shot in 4 legs of the match...3 rifle and 1 pistol...and walked away with 4 blue ribbons. Everyone that shoots black powder seems to have a different way of doing things and gets pretty set in his ways. I shoot the entire matches without swabbing at all using the method I was broken in with about 40 yrs. ago. I never have a problem with loading the prb and it always goes down the barrel with the same amount of resistance...which is about medium I'd say.
I started many years ago using a mix of Windex and Murphy's oil soap in a small spray bottle. I give the patch a couple squirts and load up. The patch is pretty damp and pushes a lot of the fouling back down the barrel each time and sort of just cleans the barrel as it goes. I've shot probably 100 shots through a rifle this way and never had to clean it or seen and difference in the point of impact. I use the same mixture to clean the firearms afterward and it just works good for me.
I've experimented with lots of stuff over the years including the mink oil, etc...and never have the same results.
Ymmv...but I will continue with my old method and hopefully win high aggregate for the club again this year.

Stony broke,
What's the ratio of Windexs to Murphy's? I'd like to try your method.

 

[Stony Broke]

I just get a bottle of the ammonia windex..I think they are about 32 ounces if I remember right, and mix it with a cup of Murphy's. I like the quick evaporation of the Windex, combined with the lubrication properties of the Murphy's. I put it in a small spray bottle and I'm ready to go. Don't worry about getting a patch a little bit too wet, it won't stay that way, and just shoving it down the barrel with a good fitting ball/patch combo with squeeze a lot of it out on the way down. Good luck with this method..

 

[Leatherbark]

Sorry but I'm borderline OCD (it really should be CDO so that it's in order!...lol) and also just plain like to try to build a better mousetrap all the time, probably why I like this black powder thing so much, lots of variables to mess around with.
Background:
TC Renegade .54 cal
.530 ball, .015 store bought cotton patch, damp with Hoppes BP solvent (can't wring any out of it), 75 grains of 2f Scheutzen.
Just sitting here wishing I was out shooting and started to wonder about having to swab.
When using the above I can load and shoot many times without it getting too hard to load, but when at club shoots I noticed that I would hit the first 3 or so targets and then I was lucky to hit another one. Steel targets without any way to really see where the shots were going. Stupid me, but when developing the load I was swabbing every shot just for the ease of loading and getting nice groups. Then I would go to a club shoot and try to shoot continuously without swabbing. I don't mind swabbing, but the folks I shoot with don't need to and would be waiting on me if I took the extra time so I just didn't. I finally went to the range and tried to shoot groups at 25 yards without swabbing and found that the first two shots were in the bull, then the third shot was about 6" left of that, the fourth shot barely nicked the left edge of the box the target was stapled to, and the next two shots I took didn't hit the whole target/box (so roughly 14" left of the bull to miss the whole thing). All shots from sandbags. I then ran a barely damp swab down the barrel, flipped it over and did it again, and then took another shot. It was right back in the bull. Swabbed again just once down and back to see if that was enough for fouling consistency and the next shot was also in the bull. The patches I use are labeled as .015", when squeezed very firmly in calipers they consistently average .012". So finally my question:
Has anyone ever experienced this and was able to go to a little tighter patch and get away with not swabbing? I read about folks not needing to swab all the time and was just curious. My current patches load what I'd call medium on a fouled bore, pretty firm pressure is required to seat them. I've recently bought some CVA pillow ticking patches that say they are .015" that actually measure about .018" uncompressed and show right at the stated thickness when squeezed in the calipers, but I haven't had the time to try them yet. I'm wondering if slightly tighter will result in a more consistent bore from shot to shot.
I really don't mind having to swab, just curious if anyone has ever "fixed" the need to swab and been able to maintain decent groups. Our club shots at steel targets really only require minute-of-deer accuracy to make most of them clang. The very first shot that is a tie-breaker paper target is the only one that really needs to be a super accurate shot, which I have no issue with since it is the first shot of the day (when I do my part anyway lol).

IF you are allowed to use a range rod at your shoots you might try my method. I shoot then reload. As I'm seating the ball with the range rod I'm using a jag with a spit patch and I shove the ball down and swab as I push the ball down on the powder. This way you'll never have a misfire caused by wiping and shoving dung into your firing chamber. Swab as you seat if it is allowed.

Bob

 

[Van1955]

I just get a bottle of the ammonia windex..I think they are about 32 ounces if I remember right, and mix it with a cup of Murphy's. I like the quick evaporation of the Windex, combined with the lubrication properties of the Murphy's. I put it in a small spray bottle and I'm ready to go. Don't worry about getting a patch a little bit too wet, it won't stay that way, and just shoving it down the barrel with a good fitting ball/patch combo with squeeze a lot of it out on the way down. Good luck with this method..

Thanks, Stony Broke. I'll try it tomorrow!!

 

[8 BORE]

Never use ammonia thats bad stuff. Buy windex with vinegar it wont eat up your gun.
Or equal parts 91 percent alcohol, murphys oil soap and hydrogen peroxide (moose milk).

 

[Carbon 6]

Or equal parts 91 percent alcohol, murphys oil soap and hydrogen peroxide (moose milk).

That's not "moose milk" It's M.A.P

 

[8 BORE]

What ever you you want to call it I dont care

 

[Carbon 6]

What ever you you want to call it I dont care

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to take it negatively. Let me restate it.

I collect recipes and do not have that recipe listed as "moose milk".
Do you have any references or dates for your recipe?
If I'm wrong I'd like to amend my files, can you help me with this?

 

[8 BORE]

The combination i listed had been used for a long time by muzzle loaders and thats what most have called it.
Some use windex with vinegar, RV antifreeze, simple green, and so on
I have seen people use beer to clean with. What ever dissolves the black powder residue.
Just dont use ammonia, bleach,battery acid, or anything that dissolves metal.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I use 1 parts odorless mineral spirits to one half parts muphries’s oil soap to one half part hydrogen peroxide. I make about a quart of solution at a time, and to this I add an ounce and 5/16ths of jojoba, and a few drops of peppermint’s oil for smell.

Works better than anything else on this board, I guarantee it!

 

[Carbon 6]

But why is it called "moose milk" ?
What's the reference?

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

But why is it called "moose milk" ?
What's the reference?

“Moose milk” (plural: meese milks) is just a general term in reference to various recipes for muzzleloading patch lubricants or cleansing solutions. It often has a white, milky appearance.

 

[coyote_tracker]

What about swabbing shooting conicals? I ran a brass brush down the bore yesterday after 3 shots and then had a FTF. Did I knock the powder residue down and plug the touch hole from nipple to bore?

 

[8 BORE]

Too long. Good bye

 

[Griz44Mag]

What about swabbing shooting conicals? I ran a brass brush down the bore yesterday after 3 shots and then had a FTF. Did I knock the powder residue down and plug the touch hole from nipple to bore?

A brush going down the bore would dislodge everything it touched and that would of course fall directly to the bottom of the bore.
IF you are going to wipe, use a jag with a tapered tip slightly moistened with a fast dry liquid, like Windex or any of the mixes you see here. The tapered tip of the jag will pass over the fouling. When you withdraw the jag and patch, the butt end of the jag will bunch up the cleaning patch and drag the fouling out of the barrel. Do not do the back and forth thing, push in all the way, pull out, one pass. I have found that this keeps the barrel consistent. Consistent is a good thing.
This is one I modified to wipe with. I works like a charm (Thanks to Colorado Clyde and Dutch for getting me headed the right way)

 

[Griz44Mag]

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to take it negatively. Let me restate it.

I collect recipes and do not have that recipe listed as "moose milk".
Do you have any references or dates for your recipe?
If I'm wrong I'd like to amend my files, can you help me with this?

From what I gathered on this forum, "moose milk" generally refers to a mix that included Ballistol, producing a white "milky" colored solution.

 

[coyote_tracker]

Ahh thanks. I have a jag. Do you use the same patch as for loading a ball?

 

[Griz44Mag]

Ahh thanks. I have a jag. Do you use the same patch as for loading a ball?

No, I carry a small bag of 2-1/2" round patches for swabbing and cleaning. They have enough mass to be very effective for wiping.

 

[Carbon 6]

From what I gathered on this forum, "moose milk" generally refers to a mix that included Ballistol, producing a white "milky" colored solution.

Yes! "moose milk" is Milky in color, A solution of murphy's, alcohol and peroxide isn't. A notable distinction.
The recipe I have for moose milk contains water soluble cutting oil, which when mixed with water forms a white emulsion.