CAP AND BALL SLOW MOTION VIDEO

[toot]

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I'm new to the forum and read this thread with interest. Also never posted before.
Picture is of my son shooting a Colt Walker. I always marveled at how it captured the blast at all three areas: the muzzle, the front of the cylinder, and the nipple. Notice how far the hammer is pushed back. Also it caught the reflection of the blast in the glasses.

that is just a phenomenal photo!!!!

 

[toot]

Yes, I use a lighter charge now when shooting that gun.

mabie he has stock in a powder company??

 

[B P Arn]

^^^ I see no reason to buy a Walker if you are not going to load it up!

 

[Snydly]

If it's the same video that I'm thinking of, he was making the argument that chainfires propagate from the front of the cylinder, not the rear. He then shot off a cylinder with no grease or wads and got a chainfire.

Do chainfires start at the front or the back? Samuel Colt thought that they started at the back, and proved it by redesigning the gun. Paul Harrell thought that they started at the front, and proved it by demonstrating it on video. Both theories seem to be correct.

After shooting BfP since 1968 I have come to the conclusion that I agree with Paul Harrel. The only explanation that actually makes any sense.

 

[Dashing Leper]

I don't know Paul Harrel but the video I posted shows a dramatic amount of fire/hot gas at the rear of the cylinder and only a small amount from the cylinder/barrel gap. If the ball is the proper size, it would be impossible for a chain fire to occur from the front, while the rear has holes leading directly to the powder charge. If a cap is missing or dislodges from recoil, you have a perfect situation for a chain fire. I don't know what's so hard to grasp about this. Good luck cap pinchers! Be safe!

The video I posted showed no gas leakage at the nipple (just sparks) and significant side blast at the gap.

 

[Packrat]

I have only had a Chain fire twice in over 40 years. The first was my first BP Revolver, totally ignorance to the revolver. The next time, many years later I don't remember what was the cause, , since I started using Wonder Wads I have not had another. I shoot a Patterson, a 51 Navy and a 58 Remington.

 

[Jeepfarm]

that is just a phenomenal photo!!!!

Thanks. I have tried many times but never been able to reproduce it. The blast is so short lived you normally can't see it. Being close to dusk helped. But timing is everything.

 

[M. De Land]

If it's the same video that I'm thinking of, he was making the argument that chainfires propagate from the front of the cylinder, not the rear. He then shot off a cylinder with no grease or wads and got a chainfire.

Do chainfires start at the front or the back? Samuel Colt thought that they started at the back, and proved it by redesigning the gun. Paul Harrell thought that they started at the front, and proved it by demonstrating it on video. Both theories seem to be correct.

I would like to see Harrell "prove it" with a proper sized ball and lubed wad !

 

[Bad Karma]

Guess I don't understand why it must always be an "either/or" issue. Why not both?

I'm not especially persuaded by the argument that a thin ring of lead produced when seating the roundball is necessarily always proof against chainfire. Recall that Lead melts at a little over 600° F; it wouldn't surprise me that explosive hot gasses could melt or soften a microscopically thin layer of lead and plow their way through into the adjacent chamber powder charge.

I’ve had exactly two chainfires, been shooting replica and original Colts since 1962. A long time anyway. I’ve always used .457 round ball or .454 bullets no matter the revolver. Then a few years ago I got ahold of a Pietta Shooters model. it’s a beautiful pistol. When it arrived I had nothing but 457 round balls on the shelf so I loaded it up and touched it off, the top three chambers fired. says I. I rotated the cylinder to the next available loaded chamber and two chambers fired. I had not used grease or wads, just 30 grains of 3f and Remington 10’s. The caps fit just right.

When I loaded the next cylinder I used 50 caliber wads over the powder and haven’t had a chainfire since. Those chambers all measured .4560-.4565 using pin gauges and the gun is a very good shooter so a few years ago I sent a box full of Uberti and Colt cylinders out to Charlie Hahn for reaming to .456”. He does very clean, accurate work and I’m happy but... if I had my druthers I would ream them to .454-.4545” A person could still use .457 round balls and unsized bullets drop at .455-456 from a number of the molds I have.
My experience suggests the phenomenon occurs from the front of the cylinder, but using tight caps and tight projectiles seems to cover the available bases.

 

[rodwha]

Very interesting photo ! Perhaps a bit longer barrel or a bit less charge would be beneficial. Reminds me of a 60 grain load I fired in my ,50 cal pistol, much fire and un burned powder down range.

Buzz

I’m not convinced that’s possible when a powder charge might be a bit more than what could be burned up such as in your case. Look at all of these pics of the fireball and citing the barrel. BP ignites pretty easily. Hard for me to imagine how it wouldn’t burn before it could hit the ground. A fellow testing with a sheet said all of what looks like powder is just ejecta that does not burn when hit with a flame.

 

[rodwha]

I’ve had exactly two chainfires, been shooting replica and original Colts since 1962. A long time anyway. I’ve always used .457 round ball or .454 bullets no matter the revolver. Then a few years ago I got ahold of a Pietta Shooters model. it’s a beautiful pistol. When it arrived I had nothing but 457 round balls on the shelf so I loaded it up and touched it off, the top three chambers fired. says I. I rotated the cylinder to the next available loaded chamber and two chambers fired. I had not used grease or wads, just 30 grains of 3f and Remington 10’s. The caps fit just right.

When I loaded the next cylinder I used 50 caliber wads over the powder and haven’t had a chainfire since. Those chambers all measured .4560-.4565 using pin gauges and the gun is a very good shooter so a few years ago I sent a box full of Uberti and Colt cylinders out to Charlie Hahn for reaming to .456”. He does very clean, accurate work and I’m happy but... if I had my druthers I would ream them to .454-.4545” A person could still use .457 round balls and unsized bullets drop at .455-456 from a number of the molds I have.
My experience suggests the phenomenon occurs from the front of the cylinder, but using tight caps and tight projectiles seems to cover the available bases.

My father and I went to the range with our BP pistols. He uses wads and a ball. He got his first chainfire that day.

 

[Bad Karma]

I’m not convinced that’s possible when a powder charge might be a bit more than what could be burned up such as in your case. Look at all of these pics of the fireball and citing the barrel. BP ignites pretty easily. Hard for me to imagine how it wouldn’t burn before it could hit the ground. A fellow testing with a sheet said all of what looks like powder is just ejecta that does not burn when hit with a flame.

Exactly. Remember hearing that we should shoot over fresh snow and look for unburned powder? I’ve heard that of people doing this over a sheet or tarp and being unable to ignite the residue. Residue which looks suspiciously like fouling...

 

[B P Arn]

Last December, I fired this bad boy 6 times with a load of 55 grains of Goex 3F and a round ball (55 grains is the most it can hold and still seat the ball without undue effort) over fresh show. When I was done shooting, there was no residue on the snow, which surprised me.

 

[rodwha]

Last January, I fired this bad boy 6 times with a load of 55 grains of Goex 3F and a round ball (55 grains is the most it can hold and still seat the ball without undue effort) over fresh show. When I was done shooting, there was no residue on the snow, which surprised me.
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I love your setup! I’ve actually contemplated something quite like this for hogs. The standard barrel for hunting and the short barrel if I have to go find it.

 

[B P Arn]

Here is how I load the short barrel:

 

[Bad Karma]

Last December, I fired this bad boy 6 times with a load of 55 grains of Goex 3F and a round ball (55 grains is the most it can hold and still seat the ball without undue effort) over fresh show. When I was done shooting, there was no residue on the snow, which surprised me.
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I do like that pistola!

 

[B P Arn]

I do like that pistola!

That was a fun project that ended up working out even better than I had expected! They don't always work out that way!!!

 

[jimairwin]

Great video by our friends a Forgotten Weapons. I became convinced of the real cause of chain fire some time ago, but still appreciate shaving a thin ring of lead up front.

I'd really like to see any/all videos of "chain fires"

 

[skyhigh315]

My only chain-fires have been with relatively huge powder loads. 22s grains in a .44 is all I do now.

 

[B P Arn]

My first black powder revolver was a 36 caliber Pietta Remington "1858". I bought a box of percussion caps, which happened to be #11. These were too large for the cones on this gun. I saw on the internet to "pinch them" to make them fit. I did this, and occasionally I got a chain fire. After I learned there were different size caps, I purchased a box of #10 caps, and my chain fires went away.