Chamber's York build

[LawrenceA]

I have started a York Long rifle build.
It was supposed to come after I finished the Matchlock but the delays with that build meant I did a lot of work on the York.
Forgot to take photo's for most of it.
It has upgraded wood and a wooden patchbox.

Due to my location I imported the parts in 3 lots after securing the correct import permits. Barbie was very helpful and supportive during the ordeal.
Here are the wood pictures Barbie sent.

 

[LawrenceA]

It is a 50 cal with a 41" Rice swamped barrel.
It is surprisingly light.
The furniture is Brass and uses the Chambers Golden Age lock.
There did not seem a whole lot of wood to remove overall.
I had to set the barrel back about 1/4". Apart from that it fitted easy. Made a scraper from a metal ruler to get the flats.
The ramrod thimbles seemed easier than I expected but the ramrod was too big to fit through them, also the entry thimble had a smaller hole than the other 2 thimbles.
I have used a combination of sanding the ramrod and opening the thimbles to get the ramrod to fit.
The butt end needed about 1/2" or so off the toe for the buttplate profile to fit.
The fore-end needed to be thinned a fair bit and of course the patchbox needed shaping.
I ended up making a patchbox end from brass and ordering a ramrod tip locally.
I made the patchbox a little more tapered than most I see but I think it looks better.
Not sure if I need to reduce the depth of the upper fore-end as I had to cheat the line to get a knife edge.

The for-end tip gave me some concern as having thinned the for-end and having that follow the curve in the swamped barrel the fore-end tip has no such taper and just seems off.

I would love to hear on what was done originally.

 

[Buckskinn]

I finished a Chamber's York in 40 cal last winter, I thought that was light, but the 50 will shoulder like a dream.
I don't want to clog your post with pics, so here they are if interested.
(6) 40 Caliber York Completed | The Muzzleloading Forum
I'm a novice, so will leave the critiquing to the the experts. I can say there is more wood to take off that what you think. It's a very sleek and sexy gun and I see areas where I would have like to tweak and remove more as well.

This was my second Chamber's kit and am patiently waiting for my third which will be an English Fowler in walnut.

 

[LawrenceA]

I finished a Chamber's York in 40 cal last winter, I thought that was light, but the 50 will shoulder like a dream.
I don't want to clog your post with pics, so here they are if interested.
(6) 40 Caliber York Completed | The Muzzleloading Forum
I'm a novice, so will leave the critiquing to the the experts. I can say there is more wood to take off that what you think. It's a very sleek and sexy gun and I see areas where I would have like to tweak and remove more as well.

This was my second Chamber's kit and am patiently waiting for my third which will be an English Fowler in walnut.

Please tell me what I need to do.
I do not have the privilege of looking or handling originals

 

[Buckskinn]

Then you are in the same boat that I was in. I used reference pictures, the knowledge here and the bibles of long rifle building as my guide. The good news is that with the internet it makes it much easier.

 

[Josh Sawyer]

The wood on that is beautiful. I’m kicking around picking up a Mark Silver kit with similar beautiful striping. Barbie sent me similar picture via Facebook messenger. Very helpful.

Best Regards,

Josh Sawyer

 

[Flintandsteel]

Lawrence,
pits hard to tell from photos, but thin her up as much as possible.
The nosecap should not flair more than the barrel. That is just not that much.
My only critique would be to slim that patch box down ALOT. Both width AND thickness.

 

[LawrenceA]

Lawrence,
pits hard to tell from photos, but thin her up as much as possible.
The nosecap should not flair more than the barrel. That is just not that much.
My only critique would be to slim that patch box down ALOT. Both width AND thickness.

Thank you!!!
I had based it on what was in the Grenville gunsmith book but it does look really fat in the photo.

 

[LawrenceA]

OK Folks... Help please!!!
I received the lock finally and after taking it apart and filing a draft on the plate went to start looking at inletting.
to get the proper sunrise position AND a white lightning liner the lock has to come forward or the barrel back about 1/4".
I think I am OK going no liner but this is new to me. What am I asking/Giving up by going no liner?
What are my alternatives??

The large scratch is the front of the breech plug. The centrepunch is where I estimated the white liner should go.


The plate inlet is almost right size but has a slight overcut at the back so I really can't move forward much if any without making a mess.


Needless to say the barrel is basically done and forend thinned already so setting the barrel back is also a painful option.

What would you do and why???

 

[Zonie]

Looks to me like you need to move the barrel back about 1/4" so the vent hole will line up with the center of the pan.

Yes, you can just drill a vent hole but by doing that, the flame from the pan flash is going to have to travel thru the entire thickness of the barrel wall to reach the powder. That can cool the heat of the priming and cause flashes in the pan.
I'm not saying it won't work. Tens of thousands of the original guns were made that way but I'm just saying.....

 

[billraby]

Now you know why starting from a blank is easier than starting from a pre-carved stock! I think the best way to go is to move the barrel back a little bit. It is not that hard. Using a swamped barrel complicates it a little bit. When you move a swamped barrel back you will have to remove wood around the forward half of the barrel and gaps will open up on the sides of the rear half of the barrel. The angle on a swamped barrel is not very much. The wood that will need to be removed and the gaps will both be quite small. You will have to fill some gaps alongside the barrel. In that location it will not be noticeable at all when finished. If you move the lock forward you are going to have a very large gap to fill and it will be quite obvious when the gun is finished. So move the barrel back until the center punch is in the right position.

A straight drilled flash hole is going to have poor ignition. With no liner you will need to cone the inside of the barrel. To have reliable ignition the inside of the flash hole in the barrel needs to be shaped like the inside of the liner. So you end up with the same problem whether you use a liner or not. With the barrel moved back you can install the liner with no problems.

An alternative is to install the liner and leave the barrel and lock in place. Then cut away part of the breech plug face to make clearance for the flash hole. That will work and it has been done many times. The problem with that is it makes a place inside the barrel at the breech that will collect fouling that is difficult to clean out. Corrosion inside the breech could be a problem later on.

Best way to go is move the barrel back.

 

[Zonie]

I don't think starting with a big chunk of wood and whittling the whole gun out of it is easier than moving a barrel 1/4" back in a pre-carve is.

Just getting the general shape right on a "from the block" carved gun can be a real challenge and the person building the gun still has to install the barrel.
I've built some guns from a block of wood so, I'm not saying this without any experience.

 

[LawrenceA]

I have fitted the breechplug so the taper in that will also see gaps opening up around the tang.
Unless I shorten the length of the breechplug threads. Then take the same off the back of the barrel. It would lose strength but from memory they are longer than required anyway.

Thoughts?

 

[LawrenceA]

Could go no liner and if ignition problems then install liner and groove breech plug???

 

[Spikebuck]

Lawrence, regarding a drilled hole...I have one rifle with a direct drilled vent. I had a few ignition issues when I first got it, but it had a small hole...1/16" if I remember correctly...and I opened it up a bit and did a very small outside cone just to help direct the heat. After doing that I had very good reliability, but it is not quite as fast as with a liner. It shoots fine and is one of my favorite rifles.

That said, I agree with Zonie and Bill...move the barrel back and install a liner. Also make a note....when a kit has a pre-inlet barrel and lock, inlet the lock plate first before doing anything else...at least most of the way. Then finish inletting the barrel into its required position to properly align your touch hole to the pan center.

I would not cut back on the plug threads. I'd direct drill before I did that.

 

[BV]

The top photo looks like the barrel still needs to go a back a little. If that's the case, and I'm not looking at the photo wrong, it doesn't look like you'd catch much of the breech plug. I'd drill across the face of the plug and sleep like a baby.

 

[LawrenceA]

I think if I combine bringing the barrel back say a 1/16 or 3/32" and move the hole forward. Not perfect but it will allow the liner and not cause all sorts of gaps.
I will slowly start setting the barrel back and see how I go

 

[EC121]

As BV said, the barrel needs to go back to the end of the channel inlet about as much as the vent mark is forward. Get the barrel in correctly and re-measure. Next time order the wood with no lock inlet.

 

[Buckskinn]

I did a York last year from Chamber's and had the same issue, as a matter of fact I had the same issue with the Edward Marshall kit from them as well. Just moved the barrel back, no big deal at all. That was the only issue that I've had with Chamber's kits. Both of mine have swamped barrels and have no visible gap at channel at all and did not have to groove the plug, but if you do, not a big deal either. Just make sure you get the liner set back as far as possible. I would not have centerpunched yet, but shouldn't be a big problem if you have to move a little.

 

[Pete G]

I have never seen a pre-carved stock that did not require moving the barrel back. Get the lock positioned first then adjust the barrel accordingly. Groove the plug if you have to; there are thousands of guns with plugs that are cut for the vent and/or the liner.