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Correct period for gun?

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mikegalante

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Gentlemen,

Since I'm new to this muzzleloader thing, I'm not sure what forum my gun belongs in. What forum would be approriate for my Lyman .50 Trade Rifle in flintlock?

Thanks in advance!
 
Some of the production guns are kind of hard to place as they have a lot of modern influence in the style/architecture, a gun like the trade rifle would most closely fit in the 1840-1860 time frame but would probably be caplock, many use them in the late fur trade 1830-1840 when flint was still used quite a bit.
 
Gentlemen,

Since I'm new to this muzzleloader thing, I'm not sure what forum my gun belongs in. What forum would be approriate for my Lyman .50 Trade Rifle in flintlock?

Thanks in advance!

When in doubt, it is a flintlock, so you can always post it in there...
 
:sorry:

Maybe I should rephrase my question. I'm trying to figure out what time period/forum I would come under in the re-enacting forums. I hope to put a persona and outfit together and don't know where I should be as a newbie. Should I be under this forum or the plains one?


Hope that helped.
 
The two forums do over lap, the Lyman gun may fit better in the later period even though it is a flinter, it is difficult to place non-replicas as they are rather generic as stated before.
 
Bison,
welcome to the F/L forum!!!!!!
snake-eyes :) :peace: :) :thumbsup:
 
Where would you place a St. Louis Hawken? Plains Hunter Rifle did in fact exist, originated in Flint and evolved into percussion. As Did the Santa Fe Hawken that also had two wedge pins as a half stock Rifle genarically a relplica of an original.
 
"Where would you place a St. Louis Hawken? Plains Hunter Rifle did in fact exist, originated in Flint and evolved into percussion"

Take a CLOSE look at the furniture detail, architecture, drop in stock of the factory guns compared to the originals...and I will not comment on where I would suggest to put them when disscusing PC replicas.
 
It is really not possible to place the modern, so-called Hawken or plains rifle in any historic category. As tg pointed out, the stocks are completely incorrect. It would seem that these rifle stocks were laid out with the main concern being getting the largest number of stocks out of a plank Or efficient use of scope sights. For the most part, the locks are all wrong, with Italianate "engraving" cast into the plate. It is hard to find any correct details on these guns.

They make useful, reliable and accurate field guns, but won't pass muster at a juried re-enactment. For a good idea of what the rifle should look like, try Don Stith's web-site, St. Louis Plains Rifle Company. Or the Hawken Shop. Typing these names into your browser window should get you there.

I'm currently refurbishing a T/C Seneca. It is a light, handy, accurate rifle--supposed to be a copy of a New England hunting rifle of the late percussion era. It's not. It is a generic, half stock interpretation from that era. Nothing I can do will change that fact or disguise the rifle's origins. But it will still be a great little gun for hunting, plinking and general woods bumming. It's a good gun, but it isn't authentic. I will still enjoy it every chance I get.

The problem for most of us is the tremendous price difference between an authentic rifle and the generic ones. And the cost is merited. In any school of rifle building, there are many, often tiny, details and nuances that take awesome skill to produce and without which the piece is incomplete and incorrect.

I think if it were me, I would enjoy the rifle I have and start stashing extra cash away towards a more authentic piece. And, if I already had the money, I would start watching the blackpowder sections of the on-line auctions or Track's web-site for appropriate guns. Thay are out there and sometimes you can even get a deal.

I truly hope this isn't too harsh an appraisal. I clearly recall how proud I was of my new T/C Hawken thirty or so years ago. And how surprised I was when people rather snidely commented on its lack of authenticity. I knew it wasn't an accurate replica, but the sheer nastiness of the verbiage took me aback. I hope I have avoided that here and I hope this is of help to you.

If you go to Track of the Wolf's web-site and look under the Guns heading, there are some good photographs of accurate replicas there.
 
Where would you place a St. Louis Hawken? Plains Hunter Rifle did in fact exist, originated in Flint and evolved into percussion. As Did the Santa Fe Hawken that also had two wedge pins as a half stock Rifle genarically a relplica of an original.


A friend of mine has a full stock Hawken's that was built by Doug Anderson many years ago. Doug was able to inspect, photograph, measure and handle an original that is in the gun collection of the Bill Cody Museum in Cody Wyoming prior to building the gun. The original was evidently made prior to the sons move to St. Louis.

Even disregarding the full stock of this early model, the architecture is much different from the current "Hawken" production rifles available today.
 
St Louis Hawkin? Santa Fe Hawkin? If it was made by One of the Hawkin family is a Hawkin, if not it is not a Hawkin.
The Hawkin is a brand of rifle, like a Winchester or Remington. They can be classified as a plains rifle though made to be used in the Rocky Mountains. Yes they did come in Flint as well as cap (flint to me is more reliable and you can always find some, no so when the caps are gone). And yes they could be had full or half stock, in numerous calibers and barrel lengths.
The main thing with this type of rifle is that they were powerful, to handle the large western game (griz), shorter for easier handling on horse back and more robust to handle several years in the mountains away from gunsmith help.
 
".....I clearly recall how proud I was of my new T/C Hawken thirty or so years ago. And how surprised I was when people rather snidely commented on its lack of authenticity. I knew it wasn't an accurate replica, but the sheer nastiness of the verbiage took me aback....."

It's interesting isn't it...people I mean...I too experienced what can only be described as an elitiest mentality & criticism as I began discussing TC Hawkens, particularly the flintlocks...and that in spite of me volunteering that I knew they're weren't period specific...even joked about them being "circa 1970"...and never tried to make them out to be something that they weren't...ahhhh...but people are people.

Never-the-less, I accomplished my goals of transitioning to flintlocks and real BP, enjoyed going through the initial learning curve, and filled many, many NC deer tags with TC Hawken Flintlocks during the past few years. (+ 1 grey squirrel !)

There are people who get out and get it done...and there are people who sit back and take potshots, based on something they did or read about once, years ago.

TC Hawken Flintlocks are honest, attractive, low cost, high quality rifles that do exactly what they're designed to do...allow an affordable opportunity to try out the notion of traditional muzzleloading without breaking the bank, deliver extremely respectable accuracy for target shooting & hunting, and are backed with an outstanding warranty service...triple AAA rating on all counts as far as my interests are concerned.
:redthumb:
 
Maybe I should rephrase my question. I'm trying to figure out what time period/forum I would come under in the re-enacting forums. I hope to put a persona and outfit together and don't know where I should be as a newbie. Should I be under this forum or the plains one?

Geez guys! He said he was starting out.
Bison,
Try the Plains or Fur Trade for persona and outfit questions.
 
Sorry, I started out with an Investarms Hawken. I thought I was Daniel Boone himself. Everyone starts somewhere. If we don't make people feel welcome....well then we will be like the dinos. Slowly giving way to ...dare I say the inliners.
Now I know I will draw some fire and that's ok. At least we can stop telling Bison his gun is not PC. :imo:
 
Packdog, Well said! I can understand the necessity for having the distinction between fling and percussion if for no other reason that it makes finding things much easier. That said...and at times I feel like one crying in the wilderness here...this idea of authentic...PC...etc while in itself is ok..I guess...maybe, and I know Claude is gonna hate me for this...it might not be a bad idea to create a section on this board for the purists. Could it be...that we have grown to the point that we are driving away people that are either a) not that knowledgable in computers...such as using a ftp protocol in posting pics, which by the way..no way am I going to get involved in doing. b)Folks new to muzzleloading and either do not have the interest is being correct in PC to the nines. All that being said....I guess I place myself in the middle of all that. No..I do not like or want to hear about in-lines...but neither would I much enjoy having to bend to the ultra correct crowd.
 
We all have to learn. Each person takes it to the level the want to, at their pace, and as important in my book the pace they can afford.

I build guns. To some I'm not period correct because I use drill press and sandpaper and so on and so forth. The levels get more and more involved.

I agree with everything said regarding PC, I just felt like we were busting Bisons chops a little. If I took it all wrong then I appoligize to everyone that has read my post. :sorry: :master:

Packdog
 
Well said, roundball and packdog, that is the point. There are always going to be some who try to prove their superiority to everyone. Too frequently these self-styled proponents of historic accuracy seem like they can't enjoy themselves unless they ruin the fun and kill the enhusiasm of those who don't meet their standards.

As for me I am more than satisfied with my Lymans and T/Cs for hunting,target shooting, and general plinking. I would really like to get into other areas of the whole blackpowder experience, but I'm not sure I want to deal with the snobbery that seems to be an integral part of that scene.
 
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