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Custom vs Production
- Thread starter 410-er
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Custom guns will more likely be close to replica quality (looks) general quality may be better with American made parts, import production guns as well as domestic are getting priced way above value as expressed above for the 925 dollar gun from Dixie. I doubt that many who know customs/ production/semi customs guns if there is such a thing would feel that gun is worth half that price new,many who have not used custom made guns highly praise some of the production guns most who build guns do not.
Ft. Jefferson
40 Cal.
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Mass produced guns come with mass produced quality, or lack thereof. A custom gun comes with the builders reputation on the line! The production gun only "comes in one color". The custom rifle will be exactly what you want, the right lock, best trigger, sights to your desire, etc. And besides, a custom rifle has a heart and soul, and its "yours".
410-er said:
I'll give you my experiences to see if that'll help. I'm first a hunter, and second a year round weekend shooter 2-3 times a month. I used T/C Hawken caplocks in various calibers for 8 years...followed by 10 years of TC Hawken Flintlocks in various calibers and smoothbore gauges. They are good quality production guns that never let me down and I got an enormous amount of enjoyment and satisfaction out of them for almost 20 years. Approaching retirement, I decicded it was now or never and had an Early Virginia built by Matt Avance at TVM just to experience one before I checked out.
I used good quality components for the barrel, lock, and triggers. It turned out beautiful and I really like it. However, it has not killed a single deer any faster or better than any of the TC Hawkens I hunted with for all those years. But I liked it so much I sold off another wheel barrow full of guns I no longer needed and had a smoothbore Virginia built. Again, the deer and squirrels it took this year didn't get taken any better or faster than those previously taken with the TC Hawkens and GM smoothbore barrels, but...I really like it. So I sold off yet another wheel barrow of stuff I didn't need and am having a 3rd Virginia built...all because I really like them and that's because of their looks.
I'll repeat...not a Buck, or Doe, or Squirrel, or Turkey, or Dove, or Crow will be taken any faster or better than they were when I hunted those years with TC Hawkens. I just like the looks of the long guns better.
So IMO, unless you're wanting a custom gun to meet some precise historical requirement, I think the decision to get one really boils down to just wanting one...and to a large extent mainly for their looks, not because they automatically carry some functional hunting advantage into the woods compared to something like a TC Hawken.
My .02 cents on the matter...
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As has been said before a mass produced gun is made to fit the avg person, although I sometimes wonder where they get their info from. Either it fits you or it dosan't. Being mass produced time spent on it is limited and no production gun will acheive the fit and finish and quality a well known custom gun maker can. A custom maker will get your length of pull, cast off and drop, style of rifle or fowler, barrel length and build accordingly. Something you don't get in a mass produced gun.
Jason Lewis
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roundball said:
i agree with roundball 100%. however, i would like to add a little if i may, and my opinion is worth even less than two pence, so take it for whatever you want to.
there are varying degrees of quality production guns too. the TC renegades used to be in every closet waiting for deer season before the inline types became prevalent. the reason for this is because they are sound, solid and VERY accurate guns with good factory sights that have a reasonable amount of adjustment ability and more importantly, they are extremely reliable. roundball and many others on the forum and the nation love their TC's and with good reason.
not all production guns are of that quality especially many of the flintlock models available. there are some people who will purchase a production flintlock and then immediatly swap the lock out for a quality american made replacement lock for reliability. pedersoli for instance makes a very good percussion gun, but they also take the same percussion barrel with it's "patent breech" and put it on a flintlock which can lead to ignition problems. also, the components of their locks don't have adequate heat treating of certain parts i.e. the tumbler and the frizzen. they aren't bad guns at all and many of them have won world championships, i'm just saying they can have problems.
there are also still old CVA's Jukars and other late 70's guns that were imported from spain and other places that are pretty poor quality too, and they show up on gunbroker and at pawnshops, gunshows..etc.
custom guns and their component cousins the good american made kits, generally have better components. they are also.. custom, like roundball said, you get exactly what you want. but in killing efficacy, assuming that the gun goes off and you do your part with shot placement and sight alignment, a production gun and custom gun of the same caliber will have the same effect on game.
Reasons to get a custom gun:
1) if you are interested in the historical accuracy of your guns
2) If you want or need exceptional accuracy
3) If the style you want is not available in a production gun
4) If you really value craftsmanship vs production
These are the main reasons, but I'd not get a custom gun unless I was sure what I wanted, and researched who does the kind of work I like.
Since I have always needed custom guns but am cheap, I learned to build them.
1) if you are interested in the historical accuracy of your guns
2) If you want or need exceptional accuracy
3) If the style you want is not available in a production gun
4) If you really value craftsmanship vs production
These are the main reasons, but I'd not get a custom gun unless I was sure what I wanted, and researched who does the kind of work I like.
Since I have always needed custom guns but am cheap, I learned to build them.
Guest
What Rich says. plus if you buy a T/C, Lyman, Traditions or Pedersoli for say $500, in two or three years it will be worth $200 or $300. If you buy a custom from a known maker for $2000, or $3000 or more they will be still worth that amount or more in a few years. The Hershel House I bought three years ago for less than $3000, I sold for more that $5000 in money and antique Southern rifles this Spring. Little or no depreciation
Bill
Bill
Bill, hope you got some good stuff for the Herschel House rifle. I would say there are 10 custom makers whose work appreciates in value.
nchawkeye
58 Cal.
'Cause lifes too short to be walking around in the woods with an ugly rifle... 
I have to agree with Mr. roundball. I think the biggest reason for getting a custom rifle is looks. Whether it be HC or PC or art. Yes art! Because the guns made by some of today’s builders are more in tune with works of art than the tools that our great-great grandfathers used.
It is probably generally know around here I am a TC Hawken fan. What may not be known is how much money I have spent on rifles, expensive rifles, because somebody, here mostly, said it was the thing to do. I keep going back to the TC Hawken for one very good reason it works as well as any of them. Plus I am not afraid to ”˜use’ it. When I shoot one of the others I am overly careful not to bang it up or scratch it and they are not as easy to clean as the TC. Now I mostly hold them and watch TV. They are beautiful.
What my suggestion is get what you want, learn it and shoot it. Get what you enjoy.
That should be worth .02 cents, maybe not?
Oh, and a free bit, all flintlocks, great ones and not so great, can be “fussy” at times.
It is probably generally know around here I am a TC Hawken fan. What may not be known is how much money I have spent on rifles, expensive rifles, because somebody, here mostly, said it was the thing to do. I keep going back to the TC Hawken for one very good reason it works as well as any of them. Plus I am not afraid to ”˜use’ it. When I shoot one of the others I am overly careful not to bang it up or scratch it and they are not as easy to clean as the TC. Now I mostly hold them and watch TV. They are beautiful.
What my suggestion is get what you want, learn it and shoot it. Get what you enjoy.
That should be worth .02 cents, maybe not?
Oh, and a free bit, all flintlocks, great ones and not so great, can be “fussy” at times.
Pete G
76 Cal.
A production gun is a machine made replica of a hand made item. Sort of like the fiberglass kit cars. It will give you sort of the flavor, but is far from the real experience. By custom I assume you mean hand made (not necessarily the same thing). Look at some of the TVM rifles that are sort of a semi production. They are hand made and finished, or you can get one in the white and do the finishing yourself. Either way you end up with a gun better than production at not much more cost. The other option is look at what is offered on the Track of the Wolf website. Those are mostly all handmade, but at various levels of craftsmanship. They do offer a ten day inspection period, so you have nothing to lose but shipping if you don't like the gun. However you decide to go, once you start handling and shooting a good handmade gun you will not want to go back.
Jason Lewis
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nchawkeye said:'Cause lifes too short to be walking around in the woods with an ugly rifle...
it's really the perfect arguement. :bow:
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All the above mentioned points are great..here is another suggestion. How about picking up a kit from Chambers or another well known maker of kits and attend a gunbuilding class and build it yourself under the eye of an expert builder. I can't recommend this enough, instant family heirloom and the pride of knowing you shaped, inlet the parts, carved and finished it.
I have used a Lyman Deerstalker for a while and it did well, and shot well in woodswalks against others with custom or semi-custom guns. However last year around this time I ordered a semi-custom gun from Cabincreek. Yup it was a bunch of money, but you know what I really love that rifle. Presentation grade curly maple nice 54 cal swamped bbl and brass hardware. It shoots as well as it looks. I have so much fun going to different shoots and meeting new friends. That and the feeling walking around in Penn's woods with that gun make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
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I enjoyed carrying my TC Hawken in the woods. Also had good times shooting and hunting with my Pedersoli Kodiak and then with a Lyman GPR. But none match the enjoyment of shooting and hunting with the one-of-a-kind southern mountain rifle Roger Sells built me. The swamped 42" barrel balances nicely as I carry it through the woods, and the super premium curly maple fairly glows of molten amber when illuminated by the sunlight streaking through the leafy overhead canopy. Production guns? They have their place, however, a custom flintlock rifle can be the ultimate
ohio ramrod
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While I admitt to owning some factory guns. My satisfaction comes from the guns I have made, weather from a kit, or from scratch. We all get satisfaction from different things . I get mine from what I or my friends have made. To me a gun made by a famous builder might go up in cash value but it would mean no more to me personally than a factory gun.And I would be afraid of scratching it up. My guns are for using! :hmm:
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