CVA .45 kit rifle - max load?

[dave951]

Hello - I built a CVA percussion rifle, "Kentucky" model with full stock, no patch box, from a kit several years ago. The CVA literature dated 1981 which came with the gun "recommends" a charge of 75 gr of 3F powder.

Fadala's BP book shows and recommends hunting loads up to 120 gr of 3F with either round ball of Maxi-ball.

Have been target shooting with 60 and 70 gr loads, but would like to use it for deer hunting in Minnesota. Any recommendations on powder charge?

Thanks!

Tom

Some of Fadala's stuff is a bit off base. Use with care.

That said- use whatever load is most accurate in your gun and that means you'll have to do some testing. A deer squarely hit with 70g is going down while one missed with 120g will live another day. It really comes down to your skill and shot placement.

 

[nightwolf1974]

I don't want to be obvious, but 3F burns more rapidly than two f. Therefore it creates a higher "shock load" within the barrel upon ignition. More pressure at the breach. To speak ad absurdum, smokeless powder creates a really high shock load with its obvious downsides. I've read over and over that the maximum load for any barrel is given by the manufacturer of the barrel. If you had a .45 barrel that was an inch and a quarter in diameter at the butt and an inch and an eighth at the muzzle, you could probably put almost any load of any kind of black powder in it, and if you shoot it at night you can see the fireworks fly 50 feet down range from the unburned powder gouting out the barrel. Fun LOL.

 

[nightwolf1974]

All I was wondering was what would be the most 2F you would want to use vs 3F...with a PRB.

 

[tenngun]

Just in case you don't know, your 60 grain powder load will be pushing the ball to over 1600 fps at the muzzle.
A 75 grain powder load of 3Fg powder will produce over 1800 fps in your .45.

Even at 100 yards, the ball will still be moving along at over 1000 fps. More than enough for deer if your shot is well placed.

Your mentioning Fadala's ridiculous 120 grain powder load causes me to mention an odd thing about roundballs at really high velocities.

The Lyman Black Powder Handbook says that 120 grain powder load will produce a mv of about 2100 fps. Sounds good doesn't it?

Well, the faster a supersonic roundball flys, the faster it slows down so at 100 yards most of his extra "power" is gone. :hmm:

Exactly
Big chargers will have big MV, but will be close to the same velocity at fifty yards as moderate chafes and on out to three hundred yard will be in the same ball park.
Balls ar crappy projectiles
Get close. Use tha hundred yards as max range aim for fifty take as many twenty fives as you can
A ball is an arrow on steroids

 

[tenngun]

All I was wondering was what would be the most 2F you would want to use vs 3F...with a PRB.

A little larger charge in 2f will give the same velocity as a 3f charge. But, much lower breech pressures. With powder costing on par with the price God charge Adam for Eve that’s something to consider.
A 60 grain 3f will give, with spillilage around 110 shots per pound(116.4 if you don’t spill a grain). A eighty grain 2f will do about eighty shots( 87 if your good)

 

[TreeMan]

As Hanshi and others have stated, over 70 grains of 3F in a 45 is a just a waste of powder. You’ll be burning more powder with very little gain to the point of reaching diminishing return.

 

[nightwolf1974]

A little larger charge in 2f will give the same velocity as a 3f charge. But, much lower breech pressures. With powder costing on par with the price God charge Adam for Eve that’s something to consider.
A 60 grain 3f will give, with spillilage around 110 shots per pound(116.4 if you don’t spill a grain). A eighty grain 2f will do about eighty shots( 87 if your good)

Then what would you say a good average 2F load would be good for general everyday target shooting and rabbit hunting with a PRB then?

 

[tenngun]

See how it shots with 40 grains, I will venture it will be pretty accurate

 

[Steel Guitar]

Yep try the 40g 2f or 3f with ball. One of those loads shoot great in my many 45s.

 

[mooman76]

Mine did well with 45 gr.

 

[ord sgt]

Mine did well with 45 gr.

So does my CVA Kentucky .45 and my T/C Hawken .45 calibres. 45 grains FFFg pushing a .440 roundball, wrapped with a lubricated 0.010 cloth patch.

 

[hanshi]

What about 2F loads?

Back when I could only buy powder locally by the can and no one particular brand was stocked consistently I would buy whatever they had, be it 2F or 3F and use the same load with each. I'm out of 2F but would like to get some. In my .50 flintlock a charge of 30 grains of 2F is super accurate at 25 yards. I load for accuracy - for a hunter and not a target shooter - and 60 grains 3F works in a couple of .45s and 65 to 70 grains of 3F works better in the other two flintlocks.

 

[Frontier's]

Hello - I built a CVA percussion rifle, "Kentucky" model with full stock, no patch box, from a kit several years ago. The CVA literature dated 1981 which came with the gun "recommends" a charge of 75 gr of 3F powder.

Fadala's BP book shows and recommends hunting loads up to 120 gr of 3F with either round ball of Maxi-ball.

Have been target shooting with 60 and 70 gr loads, but would like to use it for deer hunting in Minnesota. Any recommendations on powder charge?

Thanks!

Tom

Fadalas books provide a lot of bad info.

45cal with patched round ball, 60 to 70gr 3fg is plenty. I've hunted elk with 70gr 3fg loads in 50cals in the past with zero issues.

 

[TreeMan]

I have two 45 cal rifles. Both have a slow twist of 1-66 and 1-60. Neither will shoot well with less than 70 grains of 3F. I’ve never tried 2F in either. That slow twist required a bit of more velocity to get any accuracy with roundballs. I tried lower powder charges for target accuracy and never could get it. Once I booted the powder charge up the groups closed tight. Your rifle may be different or have a faster twist. You’ll just have to experiment. If a ten people bought ten of the exact same rifle each one will shoot different with the same load. Each rifle will have to be experimented with to determine what it likes. You’re not going to get an answer to what your rifle will shoot well with on a forum or with others opinions. You’ll have to actually find the answer yourself at the range.

 

[Stantheman86]

There's only so much that you can push a .45, especially a Round Ball.

Using 120 grains will probably blow 25% of that unburned out the barrel. If you need a .45 with a huge powder charge then you probably need a .54 or .58

People took plenty of deer with .32 rifles back when people were poor and tried to use less powder and lead. I wouldn't recommend it but it was done to put meat on the table . A .45 with a 70 gr charge should be more then adequate for realistic hunting ranges of 50 yards

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I would recommend you shoot 70 or better use 75 grains. I had a friend a few years ago that shot a nice buck right behind the shoulder with this same CVA .45 caliber rifle, 65 grains of BP. I forget if it was 2F or 3F. The buck only limped along for 3 hours until we discovered he went into the Olentangy river and apparently drowned. 65 grains doesn't have enough 'oomph' to put down and kill a big bodied Ohio deer. We learned that from experience. I was heartsick we lost that deer.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Lots of target shooters here recommending loads that will only work for punching paper at 25 yards.

Get a chronometer and find out what hunting loads will give decent velocity. I get 1800 fps with the 250gr .45 caliber Lee REAL bullet with wonderwad over 90 gr of Goex fffg from an Investarms 120A rifle that has the 28" long barrel with crappy 1/48 twist rifling. I may wear it out, but these factory guns were made cheap and the 1/48 twist rifling was a bad idea. It will be time to upgrade when that barrel is worn out.

 

[JamesA]

My son has my .45 cal. CVA Kentucky rifle built from a kit. He shoots 65gr. of FFFG and a patched round ball. That rifle has been around and shot on a regular basis since the very late 1970's/early 1980's. Still shoots and has taken quite a few squirrels.

 

[tenngun]

1/48 was a common rifling rate in the old days. Most of the original Hawkens were 1/48

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm with @tenngun with respect to the 1 in 48 twist. The rate of twist is not crappy. The depth of rifling is the problem. Very many, very accurate rifles were and are made with the 1 in 48 twist, but with reasonably deep rifling properly engage the patch and ball. Sam and Jake had one rifling machine in their shop and it was 1 in 48. Their rifles were renowned for their accuracy on target and on game.