CVA traditionals, serial numbers

[jferguson]

Am I understanding this right? That traditional sidelock kit guns, like CVA, have no serial number on the barrel, and guns sold fully finished DO have serial numbers? My used Mountain rifle has a serial number, and no indications I can see that it was a kit gun. I'm asking because I would like to clearly understand this point. If this is NOT the case, how would one tell if a kit or not, other than obvious unprofessional detailing? Thanks.

 

[mooman76]

You can't always tell. Their serial numbers changed from time to time and sometimes people filed off the serial numbers and/or other markings. It doesn't really matter or at least not to me. How the gun looks now is more important to me.

 

[jamesthomas]

Sometimes kit guns serial numbers start with a K. If yours has no serial number someone might have filed it off.

 

[Zonie]

Back about 1974-'76 my wife bought me two CVA kits for my Christmas presents.

One was the CVA Hawken, .50 caliber kit. The other was the CVA Frontier .50 caliber kit.
Both were percussion lock rifles.

Both of these guns had serial numbers.
One of them was 8746414X and the other was 8851419X (where X is actually a numeral).

There were no letters or other markings indicating that they were kits.

 

[slumlord44]

I have two completed kits and one not finished and they all have serial #s plus a couple that I bought that I am sure were kits and they have serial #s.

 

[jferguson]

OK, so I understand now. How, then, does one distinguish the difference, if there is no "K' number, is it simply a matter of judging the quality of the work? For instance, my new-to-me used CVA Mountain rifle, .50, has the front wedge holes not lined up straight, from right to left, such that the front wedge always has to be inserted and held at an angle not perpendicular to the stock, looks cocked always. Another thing, the pewter nose cap has the wooden shoulders of the forestock notched out too short, such that the screws (2) that secure it have >1/4 inch of threads not in-the-wood, exposed under the barrel. Nose cap is thus kind of "suspended" in air, not set down fully on the end of the stock. Looks unprofessional, like a "hack" did the work. Do those trifling details indicate a "kit" gun, or was CVA that unprofessional in the construction/assembly division?

 

[swathdiver]

K-Numbers will be on the box. All of their rifles had serials. Kit guns generally had more wood on the stock but after 40 years who knows. The kit MRs have a line of wood under the cheek rest that a lot of folks never remove or do so leaving the area full of tool marks.

Got any pics?

The MR was introduced in 1976 and the Frontier Rifle in 1979 and the Hawken in 1981.

 

[Black Jack]

I know TC rifles had a "K" preceding the serial number, but have never heard of CVA products having one. Some pictures, clear, detailed ones, would allow some of us to hazard a guess. Whether the lock panels are sharply defined is one area to look at. Fit of the buttplate is another.
.

 

[necchi]

Do those trifling details indicate a "kit" gun,

That would be my guess, sight unseen.
CVA factory guns had a decent assembly and finish. Black Jack points out a few areas to look at, rounded lock panels are a dead give away for a kit indicating over zealous sanding and he's right the "K" is/was on the TC's.
Concerning your wedge,
The wedges are actually different, one is longer by a margin and is supposed to fit in the rear, but I'd just file/grind one of the wedges a bit narrower so it goes in straight.

 

[jferguson]

Do those trifling details indicate a "kit" gun,

Concerning your wedge,
The wedges are actually different, one is longer by a margin and is supposed to fit in the rear, but I'd just file/grind one of the wedges a bit narrower so it goes in straight.

So, are you understanding me that the wedge hole is drilled NOT in line with its matching hole on the opposite side? If you look through the open hole of one side, the matching hole on the other side is not in line with the other hole? I have never seen a kit, but it would surprise me that they would let the customer create the wedge holes on their own. I would expect that the holes were pre-drilled, and the customer would just install the wedge escutcheons in the holes. The second wedge is installed perfectly---just the muzzle end one is off.
Pictures----life is too short to wade through all that procedure with my rural web signal here. I'm lucky to have time enough to even read the forum.

 

[necchi]

So, are you understanding me that the wedge hole is drilled NOT in line with its matching hole on the opposite side?

So you mean they are not on the same horizontal plane? One is lower then the other?

 

[mooman76]

Nothing saying someone didn't refinish a already assembled gun. The guns were fairly simple to finish and came with holes predrilled and the gun inlet. Removing some extra wood and sanding down the extra brass was required.

 

[jferguson]

So, are you understanding me that the wedge hole is drilled NOT in line with its matching hole on the opposite side?

So you mean they are not on the same horizontal plane? One is lower then the other?

If the stock is held vertical, the holes are at different heights. If held horizontal, the holes are at the same height on the stock sides, just not straight across from each other.

 

[necchi]

Ok, then file/grind one of the wedges so it's not as wide as it was.
That way the narrower wedge won't be at an angle

 

[jferguson]

Ok, then file/grind one of the wedges so it's not as wide as it was.
That way the narrower wedge won't be at an angle

That sounds like it might work----thanks!

 

[Vernon Crotts]

I bought a CVA Hawken kit at a garage sale back in the '90s and finally put it together a few years ago. Interesting detail about the kit is that it came with 2 barrels; 50 Cal and 12ga shotgun. Anyone out there run across one of these kits?
I believe it was manufactured in 1988 in Spain..
I will post pictures as soon as I can. Thanks for accepting me in this Forum/Group.
Vernon Crotts.

 

[David Austin]

My 1990 CVA Kentucky Hunter .50 has capture pins to keep the wedges from falling out. Very handy. I have a history of lost wedges.