Debating on a flintlock pistol

[palladius]

Hello everyone,

Wasn't sure if this should go in smoothbore or handguns but went with the latter eventually.

I've been thinking of getting a smoothbore flintlock pistol and more or less have it narrowed down to the British heavy dragoon, likely from Flintlock.repair.com or the 1733 French cavalry pistol from Middlesex. Yes, these are Indian made but options for non-Indian pistols are few.

I had thought of one of the 1773 French cavalry pistols but want the same caliber as my fusil de chasse so these seem to be my options.

Anyone have experience with these particular guns or their approximate incarnations at Loyalist or Veterans Arms? I can easily drive to either FR or Middlesex to pick out which pistol I want, which is why I mentioned them before the other companies.

 

[pargent]

Let us know how you go because Iam in the same boat, Pedersoli's are available but they don't make what I want, an English military flintlock pistol and down here that only leaves Indian

 

[torn moc]

well...I have had the "Indian " long pistols...
they just didn't feel good in the hand..too long.
So I bought a 1777 Charleville and found it to be much more to my liking...But STILL I love the feel of the Pennslyvania? Kentucky pistol much...much more...just my 2 cents.

 

[palladius]

I have a rifled Kentucky pistol already, it handles nicely and is accurate. I want a smoothbore.

It's true, the English dragoon pistol and older style French cavalry pistol are both pretty long, about 3 inches longer than the French 1763 or 1773 model. I've wondered about how they would handle. I'll admit that a huge chunk of the appeal of those two the longer pistols is aesthetic and that they'd be a bit more accurate than the shorter French cavalry pistols.

I've thought about the An. IX or An. XIII pistols since Pedersoli makes both and my era really is Napoleonic (and is the same caliber as the M. 1777 musket) but the Pedersolis are expensive for what will really be a plinker and darn it, the longer pistols look good. :wink:

 

[palladius]

Got a chance to handle an original An. XIII French pistol last night. Overall length is about 13.5-14 inches. That's quite the difference from the 19.5 inch pistols I was thinking of getting. I suppose the longer ones are more accurate but I can see them being awkward, especially from horseback as they were originally meant to be used. I understand why the French and English both switched to shorter, handier pistols.

 

[palladius]

Ok, just as I was finally leaning towards the heavy dragoon pistol from Flintlockrepair.com (Earl Kathan's reputation seems excellent and I can drive there) over the French Model 1733 from MVTC (also well thought of and can drive there) I come across an AN. IX from of all places Military Heritage/Discriminating General, which seems to have the worst rep of Indian gun sellers. AN. IX pistol I had discarded the idea of getting an AN. IX because I was only aware of Pedersoli's and wasn't about to pay $700 for a plinker.

Though I like the F&I War era, Napoleonic is my primary period (I've written a novel in the period after all). Is MH as bad as everyone says? I read in one thread where someone said they offer "Indian seconds." Well, that can't be because no other Indian seller offers an AN. IX. Still, the thought of a seller that won't drill the vent hole worries me. Their legal excuse is bogus, Loyalist is in Canada and they drill it and mail the lock separately. They're more honest when they say " We are not legally responsible for any alteration from its present state, nor any infractions of the law by the owner."

I may just go with the heavy dragoon after all, it's been calling to me for awhile after all, but still wanted thoughts on this if anyone wanted to share any.

 

[Zonie]

I don't know what "legal excuse" you are thinking of but there is a legal reason the guns made in India are non-operating.

It is against the Indian law for them to make a working firearm for export without meeting all sorts of requirements.

By exporting flintlock firearms without a vent hole the gun can't fire so it can be shipped.

 

[rickystl]

If you buy a pistol from Flintlock Repair, Earl offers a lock "tune-up" service for a nominal cost. You WANT that lock service. Really makes a difference in the lock performance. I would opt for that for any new Indian made gun.
But it sounds like you really want that Year-9 pistol? If so, you could always purchase the pistol, and have it shipped directly to Earl at Flintlock Repair. That way you can have the lock service done, and the vent hole drilled - and know the vent hole will be drilled in the right spot. That way you can drive one trip and pick up your Year-9 pistol ready to go. Just my thought. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[frogwalking]

Here is my own version of a Ketland trade pistol:

chambers has a kit that is much nicer and easier to build. I got a 20 gauge barrel from Dixie cheap, but it needed the breechplug completely reset before it was suitable for use. I shoot #4 buckshot out of it mostly, which makes accuracy not a factor.

 

[palladius]

My point is Military Heritage/Discriminating General is in Canada but so is Loyalist Arms. Both sell Indian guns. Loyalist sells and ships theirs with the vent hole drilled--they sell functioning arms. Military Heritage does not, which makes me worry about their product more than Veteran Arms, Loyalist, MVTC, etc.

 

[palladius]

If you buy a pistol from Flintlock Repair, Earl offers a lock "tune-up" service for a nominal cost. You WANT that lock service. Really makes a difference in the lock performance. I would opt for that for any new Indian made gun.
But it sounds like you really want that Year-9 pistol? If so, you could always purchase the pistol, and have it shipped directly to Earl at Flintlock Repair. That way you can have the lock service done, and the vent hole drilled - and know the vent hole will be drilled in the right spot. That way you can drive one trip and pick up your Year-9 pistol ready to go. Just my thought. Rick. :hatsoff:

Hmm, that IS a good idea. Just when I thought I had things all figured out!

So the question is--is MH stuff acceptable compared to other Indian stuff?

 

[rickystl]

If you go this route, just ask MH to pick one with the bore size closest to the one as your long gun.
The Year-9 pistol seems a better fit for your persona. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[palladius]

If you go this route, just ask MH to pick one with the bore size closest to the one as your long gun.
The Year-9 pistol seems a better fit for your persona. Rick. :hatsoff:

Sigh. Yeah, it does. Maybe the thing to do is get the AN. IX and the heavy dragoon pistol! The wife will love that! :shocked2:

 

[LRB]

Here a MVTC Brit Heavy Dragoon I reworked inside and out. I am very pleased with how it worked out, and is a great shooter for what it is. I added a front sight and it is pretty good on man sized targets at 15 to 25 yrds. With #7 1/2 shot, will take squirrels at 20 yrds

 

[rickystl]

There ya go! There has to be an excuse somewhere for both pistols. I'm sure you can get help from other Forum members :haha:
Yes, the Heavy Dragoon is a good looking pistol. But I like the French pistols too. Just thought the Year-9 fit your desired period.
Did we help? Or just add more questions for ya? :haha: Let us know what you decide. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Wick. Good looking pistol. Bet that taller front sight helps with pointing. Yes, they look much better re-worked.
Here's my MVTC Dragoon completely re-worked by Mike Brooks.

 

[palladius]

I thought the MVTC dragoon locks were unmarked? Apparently not?

Yup, it is a good looking pistol.

 

[palladius]

But I like the French pistols too. Just thought the Year-9 fit your desired period.
Did we help? Or just add more questions for ya? :haha: Let us know what you decide. Rick. :hatsoff:

It does fit my period more but I like Seven Years War/F&I era as well and while I normally prefer French guns in general this may be the exception. I wonder if that's where my doubt is coming from, it's not French but I like it anyway. :wink: I think part of it may come down to which will be more fun to shoot? I will let you know what I do. You remember how long I took to decide on which fusil de chasse to get, I suppose I'll hem and haw over this for a little while. :grin:

And you guys did help. If I get the AN. IX, I would definitely go the route of sending it to Earl first for drilling the venthole and reworking the lock. And he does have the heavy dragoon... :wink:

 

[palladius]

Well, I've pretty much ruled out The Military Heritage AN. IX. While the furniture looks correct, and the lock is right, the shape of the grip is so off it changes the appearance so it almost looks like a different gun. The MH grip is probably more comfortable but it's less authentic. For this particular gun I'll just have to hold out for a Pedersoli one of these days, and hope a used one pops up, or bite the bullet and get a new one. Back to the choice of the French 1733 or heavy dragoon--probably the latter.

 

[Rusty_Nail]

Sir,

There is a Pedersoli AN IX on Armslist. Guy says he wont ship, but it has been there since late Aug. Maybe he is a bit more amenible to mailing it? Maybe you can explain to him shipping is a non-issue for MLers. Many people dont have a clue, even the shippers themselves sometimes!

For $250.00 is it worth a try? :idunno: