December Muzzleblasts

[squirejohn]

I guess I lost track of all the issues and negative hoopla regarding the NMLRA. As far as I can tell it's about inlines; specifically advertising in Muzzleblasts and the longhunter big game records. In a nutshell is that it?

 

[Stumpkiller]

Here's the reply, in total, from Eric (I got his permission to post it here). I think it's pretty reassuring, actually. They are in a spot, trying to be everything to all muzzleloaders, and it sounds like they are working to balance old & new.

Greetings, Charlie!
Thanks for writing with your views on the inlines in the LH Record Book. I think you and I are mostly in agreement.
I personally feel it's OK to acknowledge the big game animals that have been taken with a modern muzzleloader, but I also think it's a good idea to separate the traditional from the modern. That is in fact the plan for the next LH Big Game Record Book. We are in the process of trying to make that happen to the satisfaction of people who understand just what the traditional rifles/smoothbores entail. This is an ongoing process, and I'm not sure quite when it will be done, but if reason prevails there will be a clear division between the traditional and modern categories. I think this would be a service to both groups.
I don't think that any inline will ever be in a position to eclipse the traditional guns - at least as long as there are people around who know what's what.
Your points about scopes, synthetic stocks, the NMLRA mission, and platform are all well taken. I hope you will accept that there are people within the organization who feel as you do, and that while there is some give and take on such issues, we are trying to get it right! It's true that there is not unanimity about what constitutes traditional, but we are trying hard to prevail.
Realistically, I think there will be some inlines in the magazine in the future, especially in the hunting articles. We may have our strong preferences, but we don't have our head in the sand. The traditional guns still comprise the vast majority of the magazine every month - if you doubt that, count up the articles on inlines for the entire year and compare that to the total number of articles. Further, we have added more articles and columns that focus exclusively on the traditional guns and pursuits (e.g, John Curry's pieces, Wallace Gusler, Jim Whisker...).
I also agree with you that we have to take care of our usual membership base, and that we are the only ones around who know and care about the traditional guns in an atmosphere of intense advertising for inlines.
I probably don't need to prolong this; I just want to emphasize that there are many people among the ranks and in decision-making positions who feel the same way you do. We all have a stake in making sure this comes out right.
Best wishes,
Eric Bye, Muzzle Blasts Editor

 

[kentucky bucky]

Hey roundball,
Isn't there an old saying that "The first generation plants the trees, the second generation enjoys the fruit, and the third generation cuts them down"? Maybe we are dealing with the third generation. Mr Bye was nice in his responses, but he wrote like a typical "company policy" man. I recognize this from the ladder climbers that pass through my workplace. Let's face it folks, the "bottom line" rules all. ::

 

hope you will accept that there are people within the organization who feel as you do, and that while there is some give and take on such issues, we are trying to get it right! It's true that there is not unanimity about what constitutes traditional, but we are trying hard to prevail.
============================================================

can someone PLEASE exsplain to me why there is not unanimity and why there needs to be any give and take ?
why must there be a new long hunter book
and why thew inline guys cant just go set up their own MMLRA
"modern muzzleloading rifle ass?"

 

[Stumpkiller]

. . . the "bottom line" rules all.

Maybe so, but if the bottom line is red you'll be an unemployed, but well loved, bum.

Sometimes being able to look happily in the mirror isn't enough if you have to watch your family (and your former employee's families) look sadly into an empty refrigerator.

 

[Stumpkiller]

why must there be a new long hunter book
and why thew inline guys cant just go set up their own MMLRA
"modern muzzleloading rifle ass?"

Because they're already full-fledged, dues paying, voting, card holding NMLRA members in good standing.

The genie is out of the bottle.

That was the whole point of forming a new Traditional Muzz Ass. They're here, so We're leaving.

 

I probably don't need to prolong this; I just want to emphasize that there are many people among the ranks and in decision-making positions who feel the same way you do. We all have a stake in making sure this comes out right.

Those fellas in "decision-making positions" thet feel the same way you do Stumpkiller,.... must be a "minority" of the NMLRA's decision-makers, or ther'd be no "need" for the rest of the letter!! :m2c:

This cain't be the first they've heard complaints 'bout inlines (I complained 3 yrs. ago),......

"Actions speak louder then words",...... and, the only actions I've seen take'n by the NMLRA have been increaseingly more "pro-inline".

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Ohio Joe]

I too recieved a reply from the NMLRA's, Eric Bye, in responses to this email I sent;

"Since the voice of the NMLRA (Muzzle Blast) welcomes, and promotes the demise of Traditional Muzzleloading Firearms through articles like this, (Another Knight "Revolution"), I can see there is no place left for me in this organization. You can count on me NOT to support the NMLRA any longer."

The email sent to me was not much different then what was sent to, Stumpy...

In my own opinion, the NMLRA should have let the NRA promote the "Inlines", and stayed with promoting traditional muzzleloading firearms. Instead of 19,000 plus members in the NMLRA today, they probably would have had 40,000 plus members, and members who would will fortunes to them when they passed on provided the NMLRA had stayed with what got them to almost 26,000 members at one time... They should have supported the home folk, the traditional folk! Bad mistake on their part... :imo:

 

[graybeard]

Fellers: The NMLRA is losing membership. I suppose the board of directors decided the fastest-growing part of muzzleloading (in-lines) was a good place to recoup. Apparently it didn't work. But look at the ads. The traditional blackpowder vendors are very outnumbered by the in-line folk. Since they are buying the ads, they get articles aimed at their customers. Remember, no ads, no magazine. I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure it isn't dropping out of the only national group representing us. We use "greed" pretty loosely, but tradition doesn't pay the lights and phone. As in any organization, money talks and bull walks. Graybeard :imo:

 

[Huntinfool]

Graybeard said, "Since they are buying the ads, they get articles aimed at their customers. Remember, no ads, no magazine. I don't know the answer."

I do, join the new Traditional Muzzleloading Assoc. in 2005 and subscribe to Buckskinner Magazine. Make a stand for traditonal ML. :RO:

YMH&OS,
Chuck

 

[tg]

If the membership has dropped so dramaticaly due to the loss of traditional folks who cannot accept the inline stuff, then that would indicated that there are few of the inline crowd who are being courted signing up???? it looks like a no win situation that the pro inline choice has put the Org in???

 

[Ohio Joe]

I also have to look at it this way... Did the NMLRA ever once ask its member's at the time, ('83, '84, or ever), what we thought about the acceptence of the new modern technology? I don't recall them asking. I remember them telling us what we'll except... I've had enough of that personally...

 

Fellers: The NMLRA is losing membership. I suppose the board of directors decided the fastest-growing part of muzzleloading (in-lines) was a good place to recoup. Apparently it didn't work. But look at the ads. The traditional blackpowder vendors are very outnumbered by the in-line folk. Since they are buying the ads, they get articles aimed at their customers. Remember, no ads, no magazine. I don't know the answer, but I'm pretty sure it isn't dropping out of the only national group representing us. We use "greed" pretty loosely, but tradition doesn't pay the lights and phone. As in any organization, money talks and bull walks. Graybeard :imo:

Graybeard,.... As I recall, over a period of nearly 30 years of subscribe'n to Muzzle Blasts, the number of traditional advertisers' has remained fairly consistant.

It matters not, if the inline advertisers outnumber those advertise'n traditional gear,.... all thet tells me, is ther are more then "twice the number of advertisers" as before,.... hence, "twice as much money". Couple thet with an increase in membership "dues", and to me thet spells "greed".

IMO, all the replies from Mr. Bye to the above traditional shooters,.... are nuthin more, then "pacification statements". Pacification statements are often used by "politicians" to give a false sence of the "speaker" be'n in agreement with ther constituency in order to pass policies/rules/regulations/laws with the "least amount of resistance"!!

I think we can "bet our bottom dollar" thet the current policy of the NMLRA has already been decided on, and it's NOT to the "benifit" of traditional muzzleloaders!!

I hope I'm wrong, but I gotta "gut-feel'n" thet I ain't,.... and I figger the reason the NMLRA's membership is decline'n, is because a lot of other folks feel the same as me.

The NMLRA"s "supposed financial problem" certainly isn't because the number of "traditional muzzleloaders" across the nation is in decline.

..... anyways thet's :m2c:
YMHS
rollingb

 

[Dave Poss]

I've been quiet on this for awhile...like I said I would, but Bye's letters got the blood boiling again :curse:. Like so many have said, the dollars do the talkin' for the "new"NMLRA. Let's face it , well known gunsmiths that turn out a few custom guns a year, but have a backlog of orders for a few more years, don't need to advertize. Thus, no ads...no money for the NMLRA. I, too, Have been around 30 plus years and was even a NMLRA state rep in the 70's. But, after attending a few meetings in Friendship, it was obvious to me even then that things were changing. Now, they have gone off the deep end and I fear that there is no coming back to the traditional oriented organization that they once were. Even if they wanted to "reclass" in-lines , or even ban them...they couldn't! It's nearly impossible to take away something that you already kissed and made welcome. They couldn't take away the traditional so, they just don't advocate it like they used to. I'm sure that in their wisdom (pun intended), they thought we could all live together.To me though, it's a rattlesnake and a mouse...DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!! I can't live with the mice. I say bye to NMLRA and Bye to Mr. BYE! He can keep his smooth worded letters and his "why can't we all just get along" attitude....now send in your dues! With any luck, the TMA will be ready to form after the first of the year, and I, for one, can't wait! I know your name will be up there in the charter 100 along with me.

 

[Ohio Joe]

Yes, I believe there will be many of us who will join the TMA without a second thought. I know I will! :thumbsup:

I also believe that it is too late for the NMLRA to recover from 20 years of very poor decision making. When you claim to be the voice of the muzzleloading community, and you do not listen to what your following is telling you, and you don't bother to ask about issue's before a decision is made, well,,, your not going to get far. The foundation of your organization will crumble. This is what has happened in the NMLRA, and is happening now.

I wonder how many NMLRA memberships were lost over the, December Muzzle Blast articles, promotions, and opinions? I know of at least one. Me!

 

[Deadeye]

Just received my Dec. MuzzleBlast Magazine.
Of the 76 pages I found 2 that mentioned "inlines" 2.6%
On this forum I find 28 forums, 2 are for "inlines" 7%
I don't care for inlines so I don't read either one.
Yes, NMLRA does it for the money, isn't that what we all work for? NMLRA also says that they also do it in the hope that some of those "inliners" will switch to traditional and this forum says the same thing. Is there, really, that much difference. I don't see it.
Appreciate the NMLRA for the 98% good it does instead of bashing it for the 2% you don't like.

 

Just received my Dec. MuzzleBlast Magazine.
Of the 76 pages I found 2 that mentioned "inlines" 2.6%
On this forum I find 28 forums, 2 are for "inlines" 7%
I don't care for inlines so I don't read either one.
Yes, NMLRA does it for the money, isn't that what we all work for? NMLRA also says that they also do it in the hope that some of those "inliners" will switch to traditional and this forum says the same thing. Is there, really, that much difference. I don't see it.
Appreciate the NMLRA for the 98% good it does instead of bashing it for the 2% you don't like.

Deadeye,.... Do you honestly believe thet "percentage" will remain unchanged (in regards to the NMLRA), in the future????

I don't!!
YMHS
rollingb

 

while i respect you thought deadeye there is a much bigger picture and there is a BIG diffrence in the two .

a person can be a good driver for 50 years with a clean recourd but one drunk driving accident that kill someone and no one will care about that .

 

[Ohio Joe]

Deadeye,

I don't see it as bashing the NMLRA when they are failing at what they are suppose to be succeeding at. There must be a reason they are failing? I believe that reason stems directly from the very first time they embraced the dollars accompanying the "inline" manufactures products over their once loyal traditional membership following.

The NMLRA no longer meets "my" requirements, or needs. Therefore they will recieve the same support from me, as I have recieved from them over the past 20 years since they embraced the "inline" dollars.

If the NMLRA wants my continued support after March '05, they are going to have to prove to me that they have the best interest of traditional muzzleloading at heart. I trully believe as of now, they do not, and don't intend to in the near future.

Sorry if that hurts some folks feelings, but there it is. eace: