this guy at work was telling me that he got stopped at a game comm check point tues the first week and had his gun numbers check four times to see if they were legal and he was checked for warrents and was held up for bout 1 1/2 hours in the process....is there a check point system that the game comm uses like that with no state police present....i think this guy is off the wall as it is to start with but this doesn't sound right and was wondering if any body else has been through this or is he just talking out his you know what....any replies from WCO's if you can talk bout this if it's true....if not please clear this up....one of this guys comments was "here's comes a guy with long hair he must have something illegal with him lets pull him over" now i never heard of the game comm doing this let alone check his rifle numbers on site and to check for warrents without the state police there..............bob
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deer check points in PA ?..................
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PA_flinter
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I think he is off the wall.
Sounds like a very big violation of personal freedoms.
A few years ago there was a WCO or Deputy that was driving a forest roads. He would wave at them like he wanted to talk as you approached from the opposite direction. As you stopped your vehicle he would start some small talk and then ask, with peering eyes, if you rifle was loaded inside the vehicle. He did this to me once. I saw him a second day and drove right on by. He looked but didn't persue. He had no basis.
I now know the local WCO's through being a HTE & BHE instructor. These guys do not seem gung-ho to the point you describe above. This might have happened in the past but the PGC has been working on improving the WCO image and I would say it is working.
Sounds like a very big violation of personal freedoms.
A few years ago there was a WCO or Deputy that was driving a forest roads. He would wave at them like he wanted to talk as you approached from the opposite direction. As you stopped your vehicle he would start some small talk and then ask, with peering eyes, if you rifle was loaded inside the vehicle. He did this to me once. I saw him a second day and drove right on by. He looked but didn't persue. He had no basis.
I now know the local WCO's through being a HTE & BHE instructor. These guys do not seem gung-ho to the point you describe above. This might have happened in the past but the PGC has been working on improving the WCO image and I would say it is working.
GobblerKnob
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I'd be happy to comment, Bob. I organized the checkpoint and was the OIC.
While you didn't mentioned this guy's name, I can assure you, no one was detained for an hour and a half so we could run their firearm's serial number. To my knowledge, no one had their firearms serial number checked.
Several people were detained, though. They ended up in handcuffs and escorted by the State Police (who assisted us in the operation) to their barracks. These were convicted felons, illegal aliens, wanted people, and a couple DUI, one almost striking an officer with his vehicle in his attempt to hide his open container of beer. Everyone else was detained only long enough to ascertain that everything was legitimate, then released to go on about their business. Most encounters that day lasted less than 20 minutes.
Those detained were checked against a warrant list. The PGC can and does check for warrants on people. We do not need PSP to do this. Many times, people we have warrants for only come back during the hunting season, so this is a perfect opportunity to apprehend them.
Along with the State Police, officers from the local boro were on hand as well as an officer from the Fish & Boat Commisssion.
We stopped upwards of 5,000 vehicles that day, but only detained 125 or so for futher inspection. The rest were waved through. Along with being the OIC, I was also one of the officers stopping vehicles, so I know who was stopped and who was waved through.
As far as the long-hair comment goes, every vehicle was stopped, not just those who were carrying hunters. We were looking for poachers, not hippies! ::
Hope this clears things up. Rick
While you didn't mentioned this guy's name, I can assure you, no one was detained for an hour and a half so we could run their firearm's serial number. To my knowledge, no one had their firearms serial number checked.
Several people were detained, though. They ended up in handcuffs and escorted by the State Police (who assisted us in the operation) to their barracks. These were convicted felons, illegal aliens, wanted people, and a couple DUI, one almost striking an officer with his vehicle in his attempt to hide his open container of beer. Everyone else was detained only long enough to ascertain that everything was legitimate, then released to go on about their business. Most encounters that day lasted less than 20 minutes.
Those detained were checked against a warrant list. The PGC can and does check for warrants on people. We do not need PSP to do this. Many times, people we have warrants for only come back during the hunting season, so this is a perfect opportunity to apprehend them.
Along with the State Police, officers from the local boro were on hand as well as an officer from the Fish & Boat Commisssion.
We stopped upwards of 5,000 vehicles that day, but only detained 125 or so for futher inspection. The rest were waved through. Along with being the OIC, I was also one of the officers stopping vehicles, so I know who was stopped and who was waved through.
As far as the long-hair comment goes, every vehicle was stopped, not just those who were carrying hunters. We were looking for poachers, not hippies! ::
Hope this clears things up. Rick
:crackup:
My God, but it is a small world.
I find in these situations the use of a bit of a smile, eye contact, the truth, a great deal of patience, and the word "sir" make all the difference.
Avoid kicking dirt, the use of words like "Pig" and "Nazi", the repeated use of the prefix "friggen" and a rasied voice.
Two months ago I was doing . . . let's just say faster than the recommended cruising and maneuvering speed of a Cessna 180 with floats . . . and by the time I noticed the van 400 yards ahead said "State Police" I had about enough time to get her down to 80 mph as I shot past with the emergency brake yanked hard (no brake lights).
I answered every question the nice man asked, politely and truthfully. Luckily, he never asked how fast I was going BEFORE I caught up to him. And yes, my turbo equiped car and tires are rated "H" (which by no means justifies anything, as the local roads are "P"). Probably didn't hurt that he likely had no ticket book in the van.
The angels decided to sit on my shoulder instead of pee in my vent-hole that night, as I was told to drive a little easier and "have a nice night."
Sometimes having a little gray in your hair helps in these things, too. ::
Could have been the Muzzleloading Forum bumper sticker, I guess??? :hmm:
My God, but it is a small world.
I find in these situations the use of a bit of a smile, eye contact, the truth, a great deal of patience, and the word "sir" make all the difference.
Avoid kicking dirt, the use of words like "Pig" and "Nazi", the repeated use of the prefix "friggen" and a rasied voice.
Two months ago I was doing . . . let's just say faster than the recommended cruising and maneuvering speed of a Cessna 180 with floats . . . and by the time I noticed the van 400 yards ahead said "State Police" I had about enough time to get her down to 80 mph as I shot past with the emergency brake yanked hard (no brake lights).
I answered every question the nice man asked, politely and truthfully. Luckily, he never asked how fast I was going BEFORE I caught up to him. And yes, my turbo equiped car and tires are rated "H" (which by no means justifies anything, as the local roads are "P"). Probably didn't hurt that he likely had no ticket book in the van.
The angels decided to sit on my shoulder instead of pee in my vent-hole that night, as I was told to drive a little easier and "have a nice night."
Sometimes having a little gray in your hair helps in these things, too. ::
Could have been the Muzzleloading Forum bumper sticker, I guess??? :hmm:
PA_flinter
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Man.. looks like the HuntingPA forum here, LOL
GobblerKnob
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PA Flinter ~ I hope this forum never reaches that level! I have never seen as many thin-skinned people ready to pick a fight at a moment's notice in all my life! :: Here, a guy can ask a question without it being jammed down his throat or state his opinion without someone putting up their dukes. I hope it stays that way!
Rick
Rick
PA_flinter
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lol, isnt' that the truth. How about some OWD statistics, alot of griping about not getting THEIR buck and some mountain lion sightings? 
GobblerKnob
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You don't have to call me, "Sir" or even respect me. I do expect you to respect the uniform, though, realize that I have a job to do, and it was you who (insert violation here), not me! Don't lie to me. That in itself will get you farther than some BS tap dance that you're trying to perfect on the spot. The, "Who? Me?" routine kills me. It's not like I wake up every day, open the phonebook and pick (Insert name here) out, then drive to his house to break his stones. I didn't sneak into his house, under the cover of darkness and replace all of his steel shot with lead, remove the plug from his shotgun, or make him put his wife's tag on the deer he shot.
Sorry, Stumpkiller! It was your truthfulness and most likely the bumper sticker that got you out of the ticket! The gray hair means you should have known better! ::
Rick
Sorry, Stumpkiller! It was your truthfulness and most likely the bumper sticker that got you out of the ticket! The gray hair means you should have known better! ::
Rick
I got into a little bit of "trouble" last year. The pattern on my 20g was a little wide and I killed a Jake and a Hen with one shot. I felt bad, mad, frustrated. So I threw both of them in my truck. I called a buddy and he gave me the phone number of the local DNR office and I called them. They told me to come in and pay a fine and all would be forgiven. Don't you know it, I'm pulling out of the gate and there's a black pickup waiting at the end of the road. I drive down there and the guy waves me over. Before I can say anything he's reading me the riot act saying that "Blank" county doesn't care for poachers. Anyway, I told him the story and had the name and number of the ranger I talked to. The DNR guy said he didn't know "that" guy but he would call. The DNR guy got off the phone and started appologizing and said he was sorry. He said you don't come across honest people with hens in their truck many times. Anyway, he laughed and said he could save me a trip to the office... he took the hen and wrote me $100 ticket. Super nice guy... even told me where he had heard some gobbler in the saddle down the road. I always respect the DNR guys, its a very dangerious job. :master:
SP
Super nice guy... even told me where he had heard some gobbler in the saddle down the road. I always respect the DNR guys, its a very dangerious job. :master:SP
Interesting...I wouldn't have handled it that way...if it truly was an accident and yet I knew I'd be fined ANYWAY, that's governmental bureaucracy that I wouldn't put up with...I would have felt bad that it happened, but would have chalked it up as the accident that it was, and left that hen laying right where she was. Laws should deal with intent & purpose...you did nothing intentionally wrong and should not have been fined.
Reminds me of a time years ago my Son and I went deer hunting, walking in a trail for a half hour with flashlights, we flushed a flock of turkeys out of their roost tree in the dark, scared the heck out of us, kept going, and I had shot/missed a doe later that morning.
On the hike back out as we passed that area, there lay a hen turkey in the leaves 25 feet away from the roost tree...she had launched out of that tree in the dark, flown her neck straight into the fork of a small dead tree limb, it killed her instantly and the foot long broken piece of forked limb was still wedged on her neck.
I thought about carrying her out but turkeys were out of season and carrying a just fired muzzleloader with a turkey under my arm was not a scenario I wanted to try and convince a game warden about...so I left her in the woods where she lay...a fox probably got a good meal.
It's unfortunate, but I learned long ago that you can get hurt by being honest based upon the circumstances...IMO there are certain situations that just should not be brought forward because the system, the bureaucracy, cannot deal with them fairly and you get hurt...sad, but true.
Reminds me of a time years ago my Son and I went deer hunting, walking in a trail for a half hour with flashlights, we flushed a flock of turkeys out of their roost tree in the dark, scared the heck out of us, kept going, and I had shot/missed a doe later that morning.
On the hike back out as we passed that area, there lay a hen turkey in the leaves 25 feet away from the roost tree...she had launched out of that tree in the dark, flown her neck straight into the fork of a small dead tree limb, it killed her instantly and the foot long broken piece of forked limb was still wedged on her neck.
I thought about carrying her out but turkeys were out of season and carrying a just fired muzzleloader with a turkey under my arm was not a scenario I wanted to try and convince a game warden about...so I left her in the woods where she lay...a fox probably got a good meal.
It's unfortunate, but I learned long ago that you can get hurt by being honest based upon the circumstances...IMO there are certain situations that just should not be brought forward because the system, the bureaucracy, cannot deal with them fairly and you get hurt...sad, but true.
You all sound alike! :crackup: Well, it's got to have some use. I'll find out what it is eventually. :winking:
Cross off so far:
Babe magnet
Respect generator
Break cutter
I'm running out of ideas here.
I've never had or seen a scene at a NY deer check station. But then, ours are voluntary. Usually, it's a biologist and the DEC enforcement arm isn't out in force. This year they were handing out recipes to thank those who stopped. :: We have a state biologist who hangs at the local cut-up fellow's (who is also our Highway Superintendent :crackup
and I enjoy "helping" him for the opportunity to autopsy dozens of deer to observe arrow and gunshot wounds. I was brought up way back when someone in uniform was who you turned to when you were in trouble, not the other way around. I've had my chestnuts pulled out of the roaster three times by our troopers. The last one gave me his card and I took the time to e-mail him a thank you. He said I was the first in 12 years. Pity.
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I sure hope CBS isn't reading this...next thing you know their be all over Potter County again! :crackup:
Old Charlie
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And you wonder why we hate cops! I'll bet when you were in school you were the kid every boudy pushed around.
Old Charlie
Old Charlie
Randal Zartman
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Boy Stumpy I sure am glad that it wasn't the grey hair that got you out of the ticket. Now I don't have to worry about changing the color of my hair on my license from bald to grey :crackup:.
Zman
This is probably not an easy issue to define in absolute terms, but it can be examined from the point of view of 'reasonableness'...does it pass the test of reasonableness, etc.
Following the logic implied in your post, when my Son and I inadvertently flushed the flock of turkeys out of their roost tree in the dark and one accidently broke it's neck and died, it would make us responsible because we caused them to flush in the dark which was unnatural for them, and caused one of them to die out of season and not during legal hunting hours even if they had been in season. We have a responsibility not to harrass wild game and cause wanton destruction to wildlife.
It's the law for us to be responsible and drive our vehicles under our control at all times.
But a deer darts out in front of you while driving and you kill it with your vehicle...on your way to go deer hunting during hunting season...do you file a report and use one of your deer tags on that deer that you just took?
If it happened out of deer season, should you be fined for taking a deer out of season?
No, that's not the intent and purpose of the laws.
Laws are passed as deterrents to prevent people from INTENTIONALLY doing something inappropriate...like if my Son and I had intentionally killed that turkey, in the dark in their roost tree, out of season, no question that would be a violation of the law and penalties would have been completely appropriate.
How about on a dove shoot...you have one left to fill your limit, another flock comes pouring in over the field flying every which way, abruptly changing direction like doves do when someone shoots here, someone shoots there, etc...you see one, take a shot and get your last dove, but one stray pellet continuing on 20yds farther accidently downs an additional dove that just darted down into the path of the shot charge as your shot was leaving the barrel, and you're now over the federally imposed limit of doves...by pure accident...yet your post states that he is responsible for every shot he takes, good or bad.
I don't believe the dove shooter was irresponsible, nor do I believe he should (or would) feel responsible to turn himself in, and under the federal migratory laws and penalties, lose his shotgun, his equipment, his vehicle, be heavily fined, etc.
No, not the intent and purpose of the laws.
My point earlier was simply this...based upon the fact that there are overzealous people in all types of jobs, it stands to reason there is a typical representation of them in law enforcement jobs too, and you go up to one and try to be a hero with some of the scenarios we just discussed, you stand a good chance of not having "the intent and purpose of the law" applied, and you'll end up with major penalties that are inappropriate for the accidental circumstances that occurred.
:m2c:
Following the logic implied in your post, when my Son and I inadvertently flushed the flock of turkeys out of their roost tree in the dark and one accidently broke it's neck and died, it would make us responsible because we caused them to flush in the dark which was unnatural for them, and caused one of them to die out of season and not during legal hunting hours even if they had been in season. We have a responsibility not to harrass wild game and cause wanton destruction to wildlife.
It's the law for us to be responsible and drive our vehicles under our control at all times.
But a deer darts out in front of you while driving and you kill it with your vehicle...on your way to go deer hunting during hunting season...do you file a report and use one of your deer tags on that deer that you just took?
If it happened out of deer season, should you be fined for taking a deer out of season?
No, that's not the intent and purpose of the laws.
Laws are passed as deterrents to prevent people from INTENTIONALLY doing something inappropriate...like if my Son and I had intentionally killed that turkey, in the dark in their roost tree, out of season, no question that would be a violation of the law and penalties would have been completely appropriate.
How about on a dove shoot...you have one left to fill your limit, another flock comes pouring in over the field flying every which way, abruptly changing direction like doves do when someone shoots here, someone shoots there, etc...you see one, take a shot and get your last dove, but one stray pellet continuing on 20yds farther accidently downs an additional dove that just darted down into the path of the shot charge as your shot was leaving the barrel, and you're now over the federally imposed limit of doves...by pure accident...yet your post states that he is responsible for every shot he takes, good or bad.
I don't believe the dove shooter was irresponsible, nor do I believe he should (or would) feel responsible to turn himself in, and under the federal migratory laws and penalties, lose his shotgun, his equipment, his vehicle, be heavily fined, etc.
No, not the intent and purpose of the laws.
My point earlier was simply this...based upon the fact that there are overzealous people in all types of jobs, it stands to reason there is a typical representation of them in law enforcement jobs too, and you go up to one and try to be a hero with some of the scenarios we just discussed, you stand a good chance of not having "the intent and purpose of the law" applied, and you'll end up with major penalties that are inappropriate for the accidental circumstances that occurred.
:m2c:
RB,
That turkey saw you some coming and committed suicide. My conscience just felt a little better for paying the fine. My intent was to kill a turkey, I did, but during that action I unintentionally kill and illegal bird. But anyway, like you said you you can define this in absolute terms and there are overzealous people out there and this could get you in trouble if you run into the wrong one. Game ethics are a very personally matter and many have different view. I go duck hunting in La every year and the guides always want us to shoot his limit too, I won't do it. It just doesn't seem right.
SP
That turkey saw you some coming and committed suicide.
My conscience just felt a little better for paying the fine. My intent was to kill a turkey, I did, but during that action I unintentionally kill and illegal bird. But anyway, like you said you you can define this in absolute terms and there are overzealous people out there and this could get you in trouble if you run into the wrong one. Game ethics are a very personally matter and many have different view. I go duck hunting in La every year and the guides always want us to shoot his limit too, I won't do it. It just doesn't seem right.SP
GobblerKnob
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No, Old Charlie, I don't know why "we" hate cops. Enlighten me. If you are referring to my comment about respecting the uniform, I learned that respect from serving my country. If you are inferring that I'm a power hungry cop with a gun, you couldn't be more wrong. You don't know me, and I obviously don't know you, either. Which is why I'm not taking offense to your remarks. Rick
