Degrees of rust in bores

[RedFeather]

I've looked at two used ML's lately and while the bores looked good, they had a faint misting of rust here and there. Nothing what I would call deep or flakey. I see posts where someone buys a gun with a "rusted bore" that "cleand up real well". What's the point at which some slight corrosion is acceptable? I once bought an Ithaca Hawken that had a reddish bore and three hours of scrubbing with 0000 steel wool and Hoppes only gave me a chemical burn on the web of my hand. Bore still dried red.

RedFeather

 

[Swampman]

Hoppes really isn't suitable for cleaning muzzleloaders. Most bores will clean up and shoot fine.

 

From your description of the rust there should't be any problem with accuracy.

 

As long as there's no major pitting I don't believe you'll have any accuracy problems. My biggest concern would be pitting or damage neaer the muzzle or to the crown. For light rusting I'd try Butch's bore paste.

 

[Runner]

Get a good solvent like Blue Wonder or Carb cleaner. Get a roll of thick paper towels. Pull a chair up next to the one you use in the livingroom. Turn a good movie you love but know by heart on. Put the butt of the gun in the other chair with the muzzle across the arm of the one you are in. Scrub the bore with a patch using one of the solvents. Fold a strip of paper towel in half and scrub the bore with it dry after the solvent. I use CLP or WD40 on the paper sometimes. When the paper towel patches start coming out clean, go back to a new patch with the solvent on it and scrub it again. Each time you will loosen stuff for a while. When it seems to be clean both ways, wad up a piece of paper towel big enough that you have to pound it into the barrel with your short starter. Push it all the way to the bottom with the ramrod. Using a ball puller screw, pull it back out. It will show you how much work there is left to do. It will already be engraved with the rifling and when you screw the ball puller into it, it will swell up even tighter. It will show you stuff you can not see. When it is as clean as you can get it, use a good protectant on it. If it shoots or not will have to be seen. I have seen bores you would not believe that shot fine after cleaning and others that looked good that would not shoot worth a hoot. My Mountain rifle took over 200 patches and several hours over two nights to get closae to clean.

 

Well Runner, as long as you mentioned WD40, I'll make mention of something similar that I had to resort to to clean a good friends barrel out with because he forgot about cleaning it. It's a product called PB Blaster, you would normally find it at any auto parts store. Stuff works great for removing rust! Unfortunately for my friend, his barrel suffered some pitting due to his neglect. But I did get all the rust out and the rifle still shoots fine to my disbelief. Therefore, I'll back you up on some barrels looking shot that will still shoot well.

 

[RedFeather]

Well, I had Hoppes and the steel wool. Wonder why the wool didn't remove down to the bare, bright metal? When you all mentioned WD40 I kind of cringed as I try not to use it in the house - stinks too much for me. But if there's one product that smells worse, it's Blaster! Well, if I buy this gun and I gotta clean it, I guess I gotta...... wait until I can take it outdoors!

Thanks to all!

RedFeather

ps - Would something like Flitz work, also?

 

[WRussell]

A muzzle loader that has been left loaded a long time can be pitted at the breech

As long as safety is not an issue, this pitting can apparently be a good thing. Some folks roughen the bore at the breech so the patch/ball has a little trouble getting started, allowing pressure to build a bit more.

This was mentioned in "Espingarda Perfeyta or The Perfect Gun", about Portugese guns in the 1700s.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Found nothing cleans up such like the green 3M abrasive pads.

 

[gmww]

I've switched to Kroil myself from WD40. Still like WD40 but like Kroil a little bit better. Also I wonder if J-B Bore compound might be the ticket for the rust and also any metal, lead, and powder residue.
:v

 

[RedFeather]

Just that PC Blaster blasts my nasal passages! I had a stuck link pin in a low wall and someone in the shop said to try soaking in this. P-uey! Didn't budge the darned thing. (Believe it was left in place when the pieces were hot blued.)

I don't think I would go for the pitted breech. Once you start pitting it opens up the possibility that it will get worse unless you are scrupulous about cleaning.

I guess the thin rust I see isn't as bad as I thought. Maybe good in that I can talk the price down with that "rusted bore" head shake. :haha:

RedFeather

 

[410-er]

P B Blaster loves to eat rust.Spray inside and let it soak over nite.Then scrub with #0000 steel wool.

 

[CrackStock]

Minor surface rusting is one thing and not a big one. This can be removed as described by many above.

However, pitting will be a problem. If you do not polish to the bottom of the pit, it will continue to deepen and will give you a perpetual rust marks on your patches and will eventually damage accuracy. I look for a bright bore after a thorough cleaning, but before oiling as I already know that oil is shiney. :winking:

If you cannot get to the bottom of the pit, I would not buy the barrel.

CS

 

[gmww]

Minor surface rusting is one thing and not a big one. This can be removed as described by many above.

However, pitting will be a problem. If you do not polish to the bottom of the pit, it will continue to deepen and will give you a perpetual rust marks on your patches and will eventually damage accuracy. I look for a bright bore after a thorough cleaning, but before oiling as I already know that oil is shiney. :winking:

If you cannot get to the bottom of the pit, I would not buy the barrel.

CS

If wonder if you use a rust nuetralizer for those pits you can stop it. I use baking soda to stop the rusting process for the rust finish on my barrels and actions. I'd think that might work IMHO. :hmm:

 

[RedFeather]

I guess in extreme cases you could pull the breech and use naval jelly. Not sure how potent that stuff is, though.

On the making sure the breech is clean, I can't even see the breech. Don't have a drop light and that .45 bore won't let a lot of light shine down it. Still thinking on this one.

RedFeather

 

[gmww]

I would think you wouldn't need to go to that extreme. If it were me, use the J-B bore compound from Brownells to get it as close to polished as possible. Then I'd use a baking soda slurry and let it sit a bit but not dry out just to get any possible rust neutralized. Then flush it out with hot water. Finally finish it off with my choice of barrel protector like Birchwood casey has.

 

[LRB]

Naval jelly will not harm your bore. I have used more than once on red bores. It will remove bluing and some browning if you let get on the outside. It is the best I have found for rusty bores. It's main ingredient is phosphoric acid, which you drink every time you have a Coke. Follow the directions, and do it twice, chase with 0000 steel wool, and that is about as good as it gets without using a lead lap. Flush it well with warm, not hot, water. Them a liberal dose of your favorite oil.

 

[gmww]

Always wondered what was in naval jelly. Actually when I say extreme I was referring to taking out the breach plug. (Extreme for me anyways as I would probably screw it up.) :cursing:

I've was told long ago to use Hot (actually boiling) water as it will heat up the barrel and assist in evaperating the small amounts of water left behind that I might miss with my dry patches. Seems to have made sense at the time. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

"Always wondered what was in naval jelly..."

Ah thin it kinda depinds on hoos naval ye find it in un how lon it has bean sence thay tuk a bath.
:rotf: :grin: :rotf:

Ah also thin tha stuf in em Kokes are Carbonic Acid. At phosphoric acid wil kleen out mor an yer rust iffen ye drinks it. It mite tak sum o tha plumin with it.

 

[oomcurt]

Maybe one could also use toe jam..for those stubborn spots. Jam is thicker than jelly so it might stay in place longer...... :grin: