Do you prefer Real Black Powder or a BP substitute?.........Why?

[TFoley]

My brain is beginning to explode, slowly.

1. IF youCAN get black powder, then shoot it.

2. IF you CAN'T get black powder and still want to shoot your old-style firearms, then without the subs you are screwed.

3. It's NOT a matter of snobbery, it's a matter of necessity/availability, or, for some, a real choice. They CAN get black powder, but for personal reasons they prefer the subs. TomaHto/tomaYto.

Regardless of the stated aims of this thread, NOT to get 'eltiist' or 'patronising', these elements are nevertheless creeping in, and spoiling the ethos of the thread.

 

[Bob McBride]

I’ve never been any good at deciphering those animated emojis.

 

[Carbon 6]

So how and when was Pyrodex traditionally used in the 19th century? No criticism, just curious.

As far as I can tell, it was developed, tested and then abandoned.

 

[Carbon 6]

2. IF you CAN'T get black powder and still want to shoot your old-style firearms, then without the subs you are screwed.

I wonder if anyone has considered that one of the reasons real black powder might not be available is because subs exist.
That what some see as a solution is actually part of the cause.
There is only on U.S. manufacturer of real black powder, and it was purchased by the maker of Pyrodex.

 

[Howard Pippin]

I wonder if anyone has considered that one of the reasons real black powder might not be available is because subs exist.
That what some see as a solution is actually part of the cause.
There is only on U.S. manufacturer of real black powder, and it was purchased by the maker of Pyrodex.

Good morning. without being too paranoid, I sometimes wonder if there's not a plot underfoot, just by regulations, to stop the use of firearms for anything but government. I understand there's no lead mining in the United States anymore. Probably doesn't make much difference, they're telling us we have to use copper bullets for hunting many places. I can't even use lead pellets to hunt sharp tailed grouse Where I hunt for elk. Now you understand this is out in the hills and not over waterways are anything that would be detrimental. From the things that seem the government do a lot of places Doesn't make me feel any safer.
Squint

 

[Newtire]

Nothing but real black in flintlocks and prefer Black MZ in percussions as it hasn’t rusted anything, shoots as good as real bp, cleans up easy and no wiping required between shots. Go ahead and flame on but willing to put money on it for anyone close by.

 

[Leadball loader]

I started with real BP back in the 70's. Tried some Pyrodex once just out of curiosity and to see if I was missing anything. I wasn't. I shoot charges on the heavy end in my percussion Hawken. I don't have a chronograph ( yet ) but by felt recoil and it quickly became apparent the Pyrodex didn't shoot as hard as the real stuff. I've been shooting real BP ever since and that nearly full can of Pyrodex is still in my garage. Most recently I have become addicted to Swiss brand as it shoots harder and significantly flatter than Goex.

Black Powder is the only propellant I can use for my flintlock so the subs are out.
I tried pyrodex when it first came out and found the same issues. Gave the stuff away and have enjoyed shooting real gun powder since!
LBL

 

[watopeka]

BP only, i have lost 2 good TC barrels when they use to do the good stuff a long time ago when pyrodex came out. I hade tac drivers for barrels. Here now in my province, it’s costing us close to $50 a pound when you can get it, so when i can I’ll pick some in the US and i hope they open soon and all this will be behind us. Do you best to find it.

 

[SkunkApe]

Yeah - what performance advantage does BP have over a modern propellant besides ease of ignition? BH 209 is a superior product. Propellant’s job is to move the projectile down the barrel. I shoot PRB, T/C Maxi, and custom Minie balls in my hawkens and they all shoot well

 

[SkunkApe]

Guess my lyman peep sight’s too modern as well...

 

[SkunkApe]

I’ve found that with BH209, a good PRB load was Speer .490 ball, dry lubed .015 pillow ticking (corresponded with Dutch Shultz RIP on the formula) over 30 grains cream o wheat, over 60 grains 209

 

[vince-m]

this is why I enjoy this forum so much everyone has different opinions and from these we can learn something.

 

[Bledfor Days]

I bought some of the Jim Shockey Yukon Gold sticks because a company up here was blowing them out at $7 a jar. Usually $30. The results with them can be downright comical. Sometimes it goes off good and other times only part of the charge ignites and the rest comes out in a fizzle half burnt. Almost like a really slow tracer round.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the other 8 jars but I'll think of something. A cannon maybe? Goex from now on.

 

[Carbon 6]

Nothing but real black in flintlocks and prefer Black MZ in percussions as it hasn’t rusted anything, shoots as good as real bp, cleans up easy and no wiping required between shots. Go ahead and flame on but willing to put money on it for anyone close by.

I had the opposite experience with it, thought it was great for the first 6 months, then the ascorbic acid worked it's magic and severely rusted one gun, Admittedly that was my fault, but the brass cases it ruined weren't.

 

[Carbon 6]

Yeah - what performance advantage does BP have over a modern propellant besides ease of ignition?

That's a pretty big advantage if you are shooting a flintlock, matchlock, wheel lock and many percussion guns.
There is only one powder that works in every application, and that's real black powder.

 

[SkunkApe]

That's a pretty big advantage if you are shooting a flintlock, matchlock, wheel lock and many percussion guns.
There is only one powder that works in every application, and that's real black powder.

I guess the important thing is to work up a system that fits the intended use and performance characteristics that you desire. I don’t shoot flintlocks, and my intended use is 50-150 yard target and hunting <100 yards; desired characteristics are minimum action required on my part between shots and precision adjustable iron sights to put projectile on target.

 

[SkunkApe]

I guess the important thing is to work up a system that fits the intended use and performance characteristics that you desire. I don’t shoot flintlocks, and my intended use is 50-150 yard target and hunting <100 yards; desired characteristics are minimum action required on my part between shots and precision adjustable iron sights to put projectile on target.

And I concur on Jim Shockey Gold powder - comically wild results shot to shot, if it ignites. I use the stuff in my blunderbuss..

 

[Carbon 6]

I guess the important thing is to work up a system that fits the intended use and performance characteristics that you desire. I don’t shoot flintlocks, and my intended use is 50-150 yard target and hunting <100 yards; desired characteristics are minimum action required on my part between shots and precision adjustable iron sights to put projectile on target.

That's a very modern approach, but if it makes you happy, who am I to judge ?
Enjoy!

 

[ugly old guy]

Either-Or.
I really don't have a preference.
Both reliably go "BANG" when I pull the trigger.
Accuracy is about the same ... I always hit my target where I want to, at any rate, give or take an hair.

I usually swab after every two or three shots no matter what powder I'm using.

If I had a flintlock, I'd probably use real BP exclusively.
Percussion? it don't seem to make much difference, if any.
I've yet to have a failure to fire or even a hang fire, using Pyrodex in my percussion guns.

NOTE: The only synthetic "black powder" I've used is Pyrodex R/S and CTG granulations. I haven't tried any of the other brands.

(I did use Pyrodex P decades ago, when I had a BP revolver or two, in the revolvers. Never in one of my rifles, though. I've always fed my rifles with FFg , Fg or Pyrodex R/S or CTG. Never FFFg or Pyrodex P.)

 

[toot]

does any body remember that t the guy who was inventing PYRODEX killed his self in the making of it? and others took over the manufacturing of it.