NoBodyImportant
32 Cal
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In textile mills cotton cloth rolling on a roller will wear the steel away
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Does lead really wear out rifling by it's passage?
- Thread starter M. De Land
- Start date
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I'll probably get a bunch of grief, but here goes... The fire behind the lead will ever so slowly oxidize the steel and burn those bits away. But like water that carves a deep canyon, I doubt any of us can shoot that often to wear it out. That said, driving a PRB or conical down through carbon and other soot will probably accelerate the wear, which I again challenge you to shoot enough to really make a difference. Just make sure your conicals are clean, same with your patches and lubes.
I should also add that fire cutting is a thing, under size ammo that allows the flames to bypass around the projectile, will accelerate the damage. I could see this happening in a users lifetime if they shoot a lot.
I would guess that poor cleaning will damage more barrels faster than shooting them.
I should also add that fire cutting is a thing, under size ammo that allows the flames to bypass around the projectile, will accelerate the damage. I could see this happening in a users lifetime if they shoot a lot.
I would guess that poor cleaning will damage more barrels faster than shooting them.
Spillikins
.451
That's not necessarily true. Depending on the paper it may also contain fillers such as clay.
With modern military rifles shooting harder bullits, figure to get a good 10,000 shots before deterion
Given the lower pressures, pure/soft lead, and lubed patches used in a muzzleloader, I doubt one would experience any material barrel wear in a lifetime of shooting with a muzzleloader. As has been mentioned, improper loading/cleaning methods are the major causes of barrel damage/wear….particularly at the muzzle/crown….IMO
No, lead was added to prevent knocking (pre-ignition) by increasing the octane rating.
Johnny Tremain
Silversmith in training
I have a 1949 built 1894 Winchester and it has never had copper jackets shot thru it.
The land corners are as sharp as the day they were made.
Its had a lot of cast shot thru it tho.
The land corners are as sharp as the day they were made.
Its had a lot of cast shot thru it tho.
Pretty sure octane level is a major contributor to pre-ignition (knocking). Lead served as a wear/reduction lubricant, particularly with softer steel alloys. Lead substitutes were primarily designed to be used(replacement) with lead-free gas in older vehicles to prevent premature wear.
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It is a commonly wrong assumption that the higher the octane rating the more volatile gasoline is. In fact it is the exact opposite of that.
The more refined the gasoline is, the higher the octane rating and the less volatile the gas is, reducing pre-ignition (knocking). Lead was added to RAISE the octane rating thereby making it less volatile and cutting the cost of having to refine the gas to a higher (and more costly) level.
Couldn't be more wrong on this.
https://team.valvoline.com/legacy/why-was-there-lead-gasoline
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Yes, but the lead mixture was simply used as a diluent to lower the octane rating. At the same time lead did have a lubricating effect that needed to be addressed when it was replaced. This was observed with premature valve wear with older vehicles.. Auto manufactures changed the alloys used for the components exposed to combustion in order to resist this wear. Replacement parts were supplied with newer alloyed designed to resist wear. The article confidently missed this point. A similar effect occurred when the sulfite level in oil were reduced around the same tome. High sulfite oils are available for vintage vehicles which also prevents the premature wear of bi take engines…..
Apologies for going off topic.
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
Tetraethyl lead served to cushion valve seats in the cylinder head to keep the harder valves from beating into the softer iron cylinder head. Before induction hardening of the valve seats was done we had to add stellite inserts to the heads because lead was no longer there from the fuel.
OK. Well, nothing like ignoring the facts for opinion. Not an article but a fact piece written by VALVOLINE.
Press on.
Press on.
TDM
Cannon
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@chorizo and @Art Caputo, you are both equally correct. Lead was added to gasoline to decrease its volatility (>octane) to reduce pre-ignition (knocking). Lead also provides lubrication to the upper valve train, mainly valve stems and seats. The old valve seats wore out prematurely when unleaded gas was used.
Well, I found these 2 fact-based articles that confirm the lubrication factor. 🤷🏻♂️
https://blog.amsoil.com/what-is-a-lead-substitute-and-do-i-need-one/
https://www.mcall.com/news/mc-xpm-1985-09-22-2480219-story.html
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Thank you, you are quite correct ! Had a brain fart !
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I have a book on Pope rifles by Smith and Harry kept precise records of how much ammo he shot. His favorite rifle was a Wincheseter High Wall in a 32-40 case opened up to .33 cal and he breech seated lead bullets in this particular gun. He had 120K rounds down that tube and stated it was still to accurate to re-barrel. This was with semi-smokeless powder which was hotter than straight black powder.
If one loads and cleans with caution using a muzzle guide they should never wear out any muzzle loader with or without patching.
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
Kind of makes one wonder about all the shooters who swear they have shot out their barrels....
BLACK POWDER RESIDUE is highly corrosive. Also very HYGROSCOPIC..meaning it picks up moisture fron the air, RESIDUE & AIR = SULPHIRIC ACID ,,Even a days shooting or 1 shot will have your barrel soaking in SA until you clean it. it's just a fact....As to shooting out a barrel the erosion generally starts at the Muzzel.and is caused by the combimatinon of the gas jet and bullet base. If a bullet base has a deformity,or the crown of the muzzel is nicked of flattened in a spot ( like by carrying the rifle muzzel down in the car) A Jet of Gas will escape a millasecond before the buttet base,Once this begins it detorirates very rapidtly. A buddy and I got idetical rifles and shot daily on the trap line.He loaded more powder for speed And carried his rifle muzzel down in his pickup, Mine ,less powder muzzel up in the pickup. most of the time they stayed loaded over night in the trucks.We started runnig the line at day break.Over 2 yrs time you could see a shiney spot on his crown. then he started hitting high and right, You could see the erosion of the rifling ar the shiney spot. When it got bad enough, We fixed it . We cut 2" off the muzzel ,crowned it and he started using my load and carrying the rifle muzzel up in the truck.It was back to being a tack driver..I'll admit that we should have cleaned the rifles more, but we always had skinning and other chores even now both rifles shoot better than we can...
Be Safe>>>>>>>>Wally
Be Safe>>>>>>>>Wally
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The biggest factor of barrel wear with muzzleloaders is muzzle wear from metal and wood ramrods , and overly aggressive scrubbing with bronze or stainless brushes.
I usually don't take much care with the steel ramrods of my military rifle-muskets beyond doing my best to not bang or run the rod against the crown , except for 3 of them that I keep a brass crown protector on the metal rod.
I figure, what will be will be , if I put wear on the muzzle crown or my rod wears the rifling from 1000s of Minies then oh well, it will be someone else's problem after I die
I have a Parker-Hale P53 with some muzzle wear from the rod, oh well, I don't have to worry about it now I guess
It's just the nature of these weapons, we have to use a rod to shove a ball or bullet down the pipe. The solution to having to do this was the breech loader
The real solution to bore wear, rifling damage, crown wear etc is just to shoot smoothbore muskets 😀
6-8" groups at 100 yards all day with my Pedersoli 1816 Springfield with a rifle sight on it and as long as the lock pops the caps, it will keep putting them into 6-8" at 100 forever. You can't wear out rifling what was never there
I usually don't take much care with the steel ramrods of my military rifle-muskets beyond doing my best to not bang or run the rod against the crown , except for 3 of them that I keep a brass crown protector on the metal rod.
I figure, what will be will be , if I put wear on the muzzle crown or my rod wears the rifling from 1000s of Minies then oh well, it will be someone else's problem after I die
I have a Parker-Hale P53 with some muzzle wear from the rod, oh well, I don't have to worry about it now I guess
It's just the nature of these weapons, we have to use a rod to shove a ball or bullet down the pipe. The solution to having to do this was the breech loader
The real solution to bore wear, rifling damage, crown wear etc is just to shoot smoothbore muskets 😀
6-8" groups at 100 yards all day with my Pedersoli 1816 Springfield with a rifle sight on it and as long as the lock pops the caps, it will keep putting them into 6-8" at 100 forever. You can't wear out rifling what was never there
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