English vs French scalping knives

[Runewolf1973]

This picture really shows off the natural color of the wood.

 

[Springerpanhead]

Scalping knives, scalping knives, immediately the big words... A Frenchman would never scalp someone, never, they are so gentle...
I have never heard anyone talking about this kind of jokes made on the head of others by French...... or just a little and accidentally.....
As for the Englishmen, I don't know.........

Good day to you all. ​

Ah yes, the French are gentle all right. Can one consider a guillotine a scalping knife ??

 

[Erwan]

Ah yes, the French are gentle all right. Can one consider a guillotine a scalping knife ??

A little, yes, in a way, but for long scalps...
This hairstyle was very fashionable and used by hairdressers during the French Revolution...

 

[Red Owl]

That's how they were listed on the inventory lists. scalping knives or butcher knives.

 

[LRB]

That's how they were listed on the inventory lists. scalping knives or butcher knives.

Not sure that the French listed them as scalping knives, but at least some English manifests did.

 

[LRB]

All of the trade type knives I've seen have the makers mark on the left side. I would assume that may have been a guild rule or just habit. Another way to look at it is that 90% of people are right handed. One has to twist their wrist to see or read the mark if it is on the right side, or shift it to the left hand. That works out the same even if the mark is on a ricasso, which would be a rare to absent feature on early knives.

 

[Red Owl]

The Trade marks also changed a little over time. The very early marks often had a symbol of some sort and you held the knife point up to read the mark, around 1810 stamps improved so you could have letters and then the knife was held horizontal with the point to the left.

 

[William O.]

Ah yes, the French are gentle all right. Can one consider a guillotine a scalping knife ?? [ /QUOTE]

Only for those with a full beard.

 

[JRBCo.]

LRB and Runewolf1973 What technique do you use to age your blades? Both your blades patinas are clean and uniform. Thanks

 

[Runewolf1973]

LRB and Runewolf1973 What technique do you use to age your blades? Both your blades patinas are clean and uniform. Thanks

I hand sanded down to 320 grit with the scratch pattern all going lengthways. Then I used a small stone wheel on a Dremel and verry lightly allowed the stone to gently skip along the entire surface of the blade. Then I coated the blade with cold gun blue and sanded back the blueing with 600 grit until the desired look was acheived.

 

[LRB]

From a suggestion by one of the greats, I used a cold brown solution, then sanded it back after a few days. Years back I used Clorox bleach, but my results varied too much to suit me. Often the etching from the bleach would be too heavy or not enough, and often uneven. Most of my scalper/trade knives were finished on a 400grit slack belt and left bright, or hand sanded lengthwise with 320 grit and left bright.

 

[toot]

I don't think that the scalp would know the difference? jmho!

 

[toot]

Ah yes, the French are gentle all right. Can one consider a guillotine a scalping knife ??

yes the FRENCH Shure did have a fascination for heads!! didn't they?!!

 

[Runewolf1973]

From a suggestion by one of the greats, I used a cold brown solution, then sanded it back after a few days. Years back I used Clorox bleach, but my results varied too much to suit me. Often the etching from the bleach would be too heavy or not enough, and often uneven. Most of my scalper/trade knives were finished on a 400grit slack belt and left bright, or hand sanded lengthwise with 320 grit and left bright.

I also had issues with the cold blue/bleach method. It would turn out nice on one blade and go splotchy or uneven looking on another. I can get a nice even finish with how I'm doing it now. I can go as rustic as I want or as polished as I want using the same method.

 

[JRBCo.]

Thanks Runewolf1973 and LRB. Looks like we finish our blades the same way. I've tried several different techniques and they all have been pretty inconsistent. I 'm going to give the cold gun blue and sanding a try.

 

[beardedhorse]

I own several original English butcher knives. They are i. Wilson and Thomas Turner. The tangs are tapered and half tang on the I. or John Wilsons. The Thomas Turner is full tang but definitely tapered. The Turner is pre 1840 and the Wilson is pre 1850. On both the stamp is on the left side of the blade. The modern reproductions of John Nowill and Sons have curious tapers on their tangs. If you are making a copy of a sheffield mountain man period knife you should copy the side of the knife the stamp is on. The Museum of the Fur Trade has a Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook, an Encyclopedia of Fur Trade Goods of tools and gun accessories and hand weapons. I've been able to see and handle and trace originals in museums and collections.

 

[Red Owl]

Tell more about the Thomas Turner knives- I have not heard anything about them.

 

[beardedhorse]

Turner had a foundry and knife shop in Sheffield and was listed as a cutler for many years. I have a page on his markings from a book on British cutlers. There was a Blade Magazine article on Sheffield makers that showed an old photograph of Turner founders pouring cast steel. He made knives during the 1825-1840 American company rendezvous period. Will get more info when I get to my reference materials. My particular butcher knife had three small pins, not cutler's rivets and a full length tapered tang. Will have to get to my knife in storage to look at stamp on left side of blade. Fairly straight spine with a lsight drop point.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Finished this morning...historically accurate French Boucheron.

 

[Coinneach]

I am attempting to recreate an authentic English scalper based on the following drawings. Note that the tangs on the English are NOT tapered and are rather square on the corners. The French tangs on the other hand are tapered down to a paper thin edge and are very rounded at the end. So despite other reproductions I've seen of taper-tang English scalpers, I'm going to build mine as closely to these drawings as possible. Was there just a lot of variation/overlap with these scalping knives or something? Every time I think I've done something "historically correct", I end up finding new information that tells me something different. Anyways, I'll include a photo of the blank I'm working on of an English scalper that I am building and you can see how it compares to the drawing of the original here...

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Oh goody, are we allowed to Scalp our enemies again ?