Failed attempt

[zimmerstutzen]

Although, I am no great fan of zip guns, I have three, all of which take no. 11 percussion caps. A 32 cal, made in Spain, a 50 Cal made in annapolis Md and a 28 caliber made in Philadelphia

 

[David W.]

Just a few. I don't follow the trade, because I have no interest in zip-guns, but there have been some made that use #11 caps.

You can use the zip guns in the regular firearms season, just not the Muzzleloading special season. But, the zip gun shooters don't want those guns for the regular firearms season; they buy them only to use in the MLer season.

Didn't the 209 cap come about when they started making pellets?

209 is a shotgun primer. Some MLs are adapted to use it. Now then make some 209s just for MLs or so they claim.

Dan

Let me clarify my last post. Didn't 209 (shotgun) primers come into use on in-lines because #11 caps are not hot enough when using pellets?

I used to shoot skeet with about ten years experience, so I am quite familiar with 209 primers.

 

[Dphar]

People in general are far too touchy and far too ready to take offense. Probably from not getting their butts kicked on the play ground in grade school or in high school or having to tolerate crap from someone that needed his nose bent but knew he was safe due to school policy. Fighting is a major no-no in schools now "zero tolerance" etc and as a result tensions build up and this in turn causes problems. The mush heads that run the schools think they are reducing violence :youcrazy:

When I was in High School I had a TEACHER bounce me off a locker to get his point across. Nor did I go whining to mommy or the principal afterwards. I just lined out and paid better attention.

There are women (apparently never having been in the military) it seems who take offense at the term "Ma'am".
Which is actually the same as "Sir" only applied to a female and is a term of respect.
Its largely the result of ignorance and silliness.
Some people seem to look for ways to feel insulted and can make anything an insult.

Dan

 

[gordy]

ebiggs, don't be too upset in not winning your two friens at the bank over, you may ust have planted the seed that may take root at some l;ater date. Just continue to set an example and don't get too irratated. I've seen the time when there are two or more in-line folks together , they don't want to admit an interest in front of their buddy.but run into one or the other alone and it's a different story. Keep at it! :thumbsup:

 

[henbrook]

Which came first,the chicken or the egg?

IMHO,**-lines(blech) are/were only developed to sneak in the back door and take advantage of a pre-existing season,not unlike modern x-bows(yuk) which have muscled their way into many state/provincial archery seasons.In Ontario for example,and this is only based on my personal observations with no hard data to back it up,I would hasten to guess that somewheres around 80% of "bowhunters" use x-bows(yuk) as opposed to vertical,hand drawn bows.Both x-bows(yuk) and **-lines(blech) are weapons looking for a season IMHO,riding on the coat-tails of traditionalists and archers that fought to have these seasons to begin with,with no regard for the values,traditions,skills,or dedication required to succeed in the more challenging pursuits.

The only reason exclusive archery and ML seasons even exist is to give participants a reasonable chance of success while choosing to handicap and challenge themselves with limited range weapons that require more skill and dedication to use effectively.Take away the handicaps,make it too easy.....and what's the point?Might as well go back to the old way of using whatever/whenever you choose?

Here in NB we are facing the possibility of x-bows(yuk) being legalised in the near future(2011?)on the heels of neighbouring Nova Scotia allowing them into the general firearms season since 2008.Since '08,NS x-bow(yuk) hunters have organised under a provincial association and are hard at work trying to lobby their way into bow seasons there.X-bow(yuk) sales here are already skyrocketing in anticipation of new legislation.At present we have app.60,000 deer hunters of which only app.2000 are bowhunters.I'd expect that number to increase tenfold if x-bows(yuk) are allowed into archery season?I've seen far too often 1st hand in Ontario the kind of "bowhunters" that x-bows(yuk) attract...and I don't like it one bit.Instant,out-of-the-box bowhunters without a clue,lobbing bolts 70 yards at deer,not at all unlike newb **-liners(blech)that shoot 200 yards and beyond.

So...which came first....the weapon or the special season?I contend that the seasons,both bow and ML,were in place before these *******ized versions of the weapons were created to take advantage of said seasons,with no regard for the spirit in which the seasons were created.

 

[David W.]

One of the reasons I got into BP in the first place was to have piece of mind and relief from dangerous hunters from Memphis comming over west of the Mississippi with their Weatherby fancy rifles. Some did not know the difference between deer, cow, horse and human. Seriuosly. We do not need long range muzzleloaders with green horns behind them. Gee, is that a deer? Let's shoot it and find out.

 

[squirrellluck]

I can only assume from your post you are refering to compound bows as crossbows have been around several hundred years before the compound bow.As to bow season I agree those awful wheeled or cammed things should not be allowed. Oh, no sights, scopes or releases either.

 

[henbrook]

You could assume that...but you and I both know you'd be wrong.Of course I'm referring to crossbows(yuk) and yes I realise that they have been used as an instrument of war since several centuries B.C.,probably for the same reason they are so popular with modern day hunters,that being because anybody can be proficient with an x-bow(yuk)within minutes of picking one up for the first time,unlike hand drawn bows that take considerably longer to master.....even the training wheel variety.The similairities between x-bows(yuk) and **-lines(blech)as shortcuts for getting the instant gratification,Generation-NOW crowd into bow and ML seasons is undeniable.

 

[squirrellluck]

Ok, first post was just funn'in with ya. I am a traditional archer. Bent stick,string, sharp pointy stick. That being said by your own definition of shortcut a compound is a shortcut is it not? It has sights like a gun,aims like a gun and usually is used with a trigger release. Now I don't have a problem with compound hunters but I have no problem with xbow hunters either. Our numbers as hunters is declining as I understand it therefore anything used to divide us be it of our own devising or anti-hunters weakens us as a whole. My response is to educate the new guys and encourage them. Maybe after getting to know me they may become interested in a more challanging and traditional way of hunting. When I started bow and muzzleloader hunting it was to extend my hunting season. I have hunted deer and small game all my life so if I could be in the woods longer that way great. Now I find myself hunting more with trad. archery equipt and will hunt completely trad this year, gun and archery. By not letting equipt choice dictate who we associate with we have more chances to teach ethical hunting and respect for the creatures we hunt. Just my .02 worth and expensive at that price :v

 

[Dphar]

A few years ago someone shot a Llama (they use them to keep coyotes out of the sheep) as an elk about 50 miles from here. Tagged it but was informed of the error at a check station.
I don't know what the charges were but stealing a hoofed animal in Montana is a felony.

Dan

 

[henbrook]

Does they still hangs ya for rustlin' out thar in Montani? :idunno:

 

[Dphar]

I know a local that wanted to hang a guy over a goat I from what I hear.
Hungry transient, wife's pet goat. Not funny really.
The perp may have been to mentally impaired to stand trial. May have to ask some questions.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

Actually the scope was a lot earlier.
Leonardo Da Vinci had invented some type of a telescopic sight. http://www.badassoftheweek.com/davinci.html[/quote]

But did anyone actually use it. There was no significant use of telescopic sights for *hunting* until the 1870s I believe. If you find an old scope from the 1870s and look through it you will likely understand why some have a very poor field of view. Very dim optics etc.
But at one time a lot of the heavy rifles leaving the Sharps factory for the west had scopes.

Dan

 

[Pork Chop]

We do not need long range muzzleloaders with green horns behind them. Gee, is that a deer? Let's shoot it and find out.

AMEN, HALLELUJAH AND PASS THE AMMO!

 

[luieb45]

Just a few. I don't follow the trade, because I have no interest in zip-guns, but there have been some made that use #11 caps.

You can use the zip guns in the regular firearms season, just not the Muzzleloading special season. But, the zip gun shooters don't want those guns for the regular firearms season; they buy them only to use in the MLer season.

Actually I know a lot of people that like to use their inlines for all seasons. They think it's more challenging but really inlines get better ballistics than shotguns. My friend and his dad hunt with inlines in regular season. He doesn't really know what exactly a muzzleloader is and he thinks they're all the same. I showed him a picture of my gun on my phone and he said"why is your gun brown?" That is truly sad that he hasn't even seen a gun with a wooden stock. I don't even own a gun with a non wooden stock.

 

[nkbj]

But at one time a lot of the heavy rifles leaving the Sharps factory for the west had scopes.

By golly that's the best comparison I've seen yet...inlines ARE SHARPS.
So, OK, they're ugly Sharps but from the function standpoint that's what they amount to.

 

[paulvallandigham]

"...really inlines get better ballistics than shotguns..."


Says who??? Are you comparing Modern Bullet ballistics to foster slug ballistics??? Apple and oranges, my friend- as different as night and day. A 12 gauge slug begins as a .72 caliber entry hole, and continues to expand and do even more damage as it goes through a deer. For the RANGE AT WHICH MOST DEER ARE SHOT, the shotgun slug in the foster style is superior to anything else smaller than it. You are listening to folks who apparently don't hunt deer where I hunt them in Illinois, and I have hunted deer in 5 different counties, both here in Central Illinois, and down in the Shawnee National Forest. ( Champaign, Vermilion, Pope, Alexander, and Monroe counties.) They think the gun has to have a scope sight on it, that it has to be able to send a projectile out to 200 yards, and still complete penetrate a deer's body.

I have friends who have killed deer out at 175 yds. with both slug guns, and MLers. ( I refuse to take such shots, but that is my business.)Both of these friends are terrific shooters, and practice so often that they never have any doubt about making such long shots. Both have ranges on their own property.

Ballistics is paper data. Its fine for what it is, but NOTHING provides the Proof in the Pudding like actual performance. Listen to this stuff, from your father, or friends, and just remember it for what it is: an opinion. Everyone has them- like noses.

I happen to have a slug barrel for my pump shotgun that will shoot foster slugs into one hole groups all day long at 50 yards. It still put them into a 4 inch groups, or smaller at 100 yds, from a smoothbore.

If I had a rifled slug barrel, I would be assured of 100 yd. groups that are half that size. But, after 100 yds, the drag factors become a serious problem for foster style slugs, they are below the sound barrier in speed, and they were never designed, nor intended to be a longer range projectile. If you can't get within 100 yds of a deer, you should be having second thoughts about firing your shot, anyway.

The light conditions in the field would have to be near perfect for me to choose to take the shot, even though I know how much sight to hold over to hit at longer ranges with my guns. There are just too many chances for the projectile to hit branches, leaves, etc. and be turned from the aimed Line of fire at those longer ranges. The chances only get worse in poor light conditions.

To Date,my shot placement on deer has been excellent, with both my slug barrel, and my MLER. I have not had a deer move more than 25 yds after being hit, and none needed a second shot. I know that if I hunt long enough, that the chance for an error to occur goes up, and my record will not stay in tact, but I am working on it every season I go out.

 

[ebiggs1]

“I know that if I hunt long enough, that the chance for an error to occur goes up, and my record will not stay in tact, but I am working on it every season I go out.”

If you flip a coin and it came up heads 9 times in a row, what is the chance it will come up heads the 10th time?
The odds are still 50/50. It is the sequence reproduction that has different odds.
So the odds of your next successful hunting trip are exactly the same as the first ones were. You can expect the same exceptional experience.

 

[ebiggs1]

I ran into one of the fellows that started this treatise on in-lines.
He asked how I did last hunting season? I replied that I didn’t shoot a deer although I had
opportunities to do so. He told me if I gave up that old blunderbuss and got a real muzzleloader I would have been successful. He told me he got three deer due in large part because he got to hunt three seasons. (Muzzleloader, regular and left over.)

 

[luieb45]

"...really inlines get better ballistics than shotguns..."


Says who??? Are you comparing Modern Bullet ballistics to foster slug ballistics??? Apple and oranges, my friend- as different as night and day. A 12 gauge slug begins as a .72 caliber entry hole, and continues to expand and do even more damage as it goes through a deer. For the RANGE AT WHICH MOST DEER ARE SHOT, the shotgun slug in the foster style is superior to anything else smaller than it. You are listening to folks who apparently don't hunt deer where I hunt them in Illinois, and I have hunted deer in 5 different counties, both here in Central Illinois, and down in the Shawnee National Forest. ( Champaign, Vermilion, Pope, Alexander, and Monroe counties.) They think the gun has to have a scope sight on it, that it has to be able to send a projectile out to 200 yards, and still complete penetrate a deer's body.

I have friends who have killed deer out at 175 yds. with both slug guns, and MLers. ( I refuse to take such shots, but that is my business.)Both of these friends are terrific shooters, and practice so often that they never have any doubt about making such long shots. Both have ranges on their own property.

Ballistics is paper data. Its fine for what it is, but NOTHING provides the Proof in the Pudding like actual performance. Listen to this stuff, from your father, or friends, and just remember it for what it is: an opinion. Everyone has them- like noses.

I happen to have a slug barrel for my pump shotgun that will shoot foster slugs into one hole groups all day long at 50 yards. It still put them into a 4 inch groups, or smaller at 100 yds, from a smoothbore.

If I had a rifled slug barrel, I would be assured of 100 yd. groups that are half that size. But, after 100 yds, the drag factors become a serious problem for foster style slugs, they are below the sound barrier in speed, and they were never designed, nor intended to be a longer range projectile. If you can't get within 100 yds of a deer, you should be having second thoughts about firing your shot, anyway.

The light conditions in the field would have to be near perfect for me to choose to take the shot, even though I know how much sight to hold over to hit at longer ranges with my guns. There are just too many chances for the projectile to hit branches, leaves, etc. and be turned from the aimed Line of fire at those longer ranges. The chances only get worse in poor light conditions.

To Date,my shot placement on deer has been excellent, with both my slug barrel, and my MLER. I have not had a deer move more than 25 yds after being hit, and none needed a second shot. I know that if I hunt long enough, that the chance for an error to occur goes up, and my record will not stay in tact, but I am working on it every season I go out.

I know from first hand experience that shotgun slugs can take deer out to 200 yards but I have also seen plenty of animals killed with a .50 cal inline at 300 or more yards. I saw that there were some REALLY expensive inlines that were a couple thousand dollars that promised 3 in. groups at 400 yards or you get a complete refund.