fast pre-prepared shot loads

[taylorh]

Hello,
I've been experimenting with paper cartridge ball loads. They work okay but I'm going to stick with rolling 80g of pyrodex in double-wide paper zig-zags for the pre-measured powder, and using my 'bread board' for ball and patch. It is fairly fast and the patches are more consistant than the paper-patched balls. What I havent figured out yet is how to prepare a good (and fast) shot reload. 28 gauge shot cups don't work well in my gun, so I've been using pre-measured powder dumps in zig-zags (or newspaper sealed with rubber cement) followed by over powder cards and wads, followed by premeasured lots of shot in corked wood vials, followed by an overshot card to hold the whole thing in. The powder and shot go down fine, the problem is fumbling around for the right cards or wads in a hurry without dumping the whole thing on the ground! :curse: Has anyone ever made pre-prepared shot cartridges, and how did they work? Please give good details, I'm a slow learner.

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

You can make prepared shot loads the same way you make your paper cartridges. Wrap your zigzag or newpaper around a mandrel slightly under bore size, and seal one end, making a cup. Then add the shot charge and seal the other end. You still need an overshot wad to keep it in place, but it's a lot more convenient than loose shot. I haven't tried these shot charges yet, but I read Ross seifried's account in Blackpowder Hunting, and he says they work great.

I'll see if I can locate the article for you, if you would like.

 

[roundball]

You can make prepared shot loads the same way you make your paper cartridges. Wrap your zigzag or newpaper around a mandrel slightly under bore size, and seal one end, making a cup. Then add the shot charge and seal the other end. You still need an overshot wad to keep it in place, but it's a lot more convenient than loose shot. I haven't tried these shot charges yet, but I read Ross seifried's account in Blackpowder Hunting, and he says they work great.

I'll see if I can locate the article for you, if you would like.

I'd be interested in that article too...I tried something like that, making paper shot cups for my .62cal but most of the time if I had excess paper up above the shot charge, and it folded over the shot charge when seating an over-shot card, the whole mass of shot would go out through the target like a slug.

I found I had to premeasure/precut my paper shot cups so the amount of shot I was using filled up flush with the top of the walls of the paper cup, then I got excellent, consistent patterns.

 

[musketman]

If you use over powder and fiber wads, you can save a step by gluing the two of them together, then they both come out of the hunting pouch at once...

Have you concidered making a pre-measured paper shot tube with the over-shot card glued to the top of it?

 

[taylorh]

That sounds great, I'd really like to see that article if you can find it, thanks.

 

[taylorh]

I hadn't considered gluing the over powder card and wad together because the wad is oiled. But the idea of making a thin newspaper cartridge containing the over-powder card, wad, shot and over-shot card might work, especially if it would fit in a zig-zag. Then I could have my charge in one zig-zag (tear it and drop the powder in), and my shot-load in another (just tear the top off as it clears the muzzle and stuff it). I'll let you know after I try it. My only concern is that this load is bigger than the zig-zag, which means I'll have to use a dowel (.5 inch) and newspaper

 

[musketman]

But the idea of making a thin newspaper cartridge containing the over-powder card, wad, shot and over-shot card might work, especially if it would fit in a zig-zag.

I do this...

I poke the tubes with a pin so they open easy in flight...

 

[Black Hand]

I make mine with newspaper and roll and tie each end with thread. They are wrapped around a piece of brass tube (2-3 layers), the bottom twisted and tied, the measured shot load poured in, the tube retracted, and the other end twisted tightly and tied. I then lube the outside with yellow stuff or deer tallow. They just fit in the end of my .62 trade gun. Easy to make, cheap materials and pattern fantastic at 25-30 yards. Loaded with an over-powder and over-shot card. The whole thing is loaded. inBlack Hand

 

[taylorh]

Concerning the attempt by musketman to load your shot in a closed paper shot-cup, I tried something similar by using 28 gauge plastic hulls loaded with 3/4 ounce of 7 1/2 shot with a piece of tape over the top to hold'em in. Not only was it really hard to stuff down the shoot (because the shot cup buldged out under ram rod pressure), but the shot stayed in the cup through the paper target! :: Might have the same effect though as glacer safety-slugs in a handgun, except with more of a magnum effect! ::

 

[taylorh]

Thanks for the info musketman, you have given me something to think about. :thanks:

 

[musketman]

Concerning the attempt by musketman to load your shot in a closed paper shot-cup, I tried something similar by using 28 gauge plastic hulls loaded with 3/4 ounce of 7 1/2 shot with a piece of tape over the top to hold'em in. Not only was it really hard to stuff down the shoot (because the shot cup buldged out under ram rod pressure), but the shot stayed in the cup through the paper target! :: Might have the same effect though as glacer safety-slugs in a handgun, except with more of a magnum effect! ::

That is a good point about the shot cup bulging while ramming, what I did to overcome this was to make the paper shot-cup under the bore size so it will almost slide down the tube without a ramrod, the shot tube will compact once it hits the 1/2 inch fiber wad...

 

[roundball]

".....with a piece of tape over the top to hold'em in. Not only was it really hard to stuff down the shoot (because the shot cup buldged out under ram rod pressure), but the shot stayed in the cup through the paper target!

Yup, similar experience when I folded the top of the shot cup paper over the shot charge.

Everything I've read about smoothbore shot charges is that the over powder cards, cushion wads, and over shot cards are supposed to be small, light, and loose so they'll peel away from the shot charge quickly and not stay together to drive through and blow the pattern.

My question to those who use "sealed / contained" shot cartridges:
Is there something else at work that prevent these from going to the target like a slug?

Are they undersized in the bore so they rupture when they are seated, and/or rupture at ignition setback time, etc?

 

[Mike Brooks]

I've hunted birds with flintlock fowlers for 25 years. I've tried about everything for carrying the stuff to shoot them with..
I finally ditched the "shooting bag". No great loss there, it was always tangled up in cornstalks anyway. :shake:
I finally settled on a powder flask and a shot flask. The kind with the measuring cups that come out so you can load with out dumping straight from the flask to the barrel. You can get these from Dixie gun works for about $50.
I carry the flasks and my cards and wads in my hunting jacket pockets. I've found this to be by far the quickest way to load as well as the least cumbersome for a day in the field.

 

[AJFedak]

Roundball,
I've used the folded shot packets. Both ends folded like a "coin wrapper", but I keep my packets under-size to allow them to split in the barrel. I do this for turkey and especially waterfowl hunting.

So far I've only had one packet not split and that was at the range when patterning for turkeys. As a matter of fact that turkey target is in my office. I shot the whole thing through the "eye". Now I could never-never even push something that close even by hand. Makes a great conversation piece.

I use the 3x5 cards that come in my shooting magazines. My wraps are about 1/16 inch from 2-complete wraps. Use contact cement to seal the long edge, slide the tube down to fold the end using the dowel to make sure it is tight, side the tube off, fill with shot, and close the open end. It is strange to see the paper afterwards, all shredded.

AJ/OH

 

[roundball]

My wraps are about 1/16 inch from 2-complete wraps. Use contact cement to seal the long edge, slide the tube down to fold the end using the dowel to make sure it is tight, side the tube off, fill with shot, and close the open end. It is strange to see the paper afterwards, all shredded.

That's how I make mine...just short of two complete wraps to aid bursting...slightly under bore size...using 'Post-It' notes and let the tacky edge stick to itself.
I fold in one end of course, but after experiencing the "slug" effect, I've just cut the height of the paper cups to match/be flush with the amount of shot I pour in...then top it off with an OS card...they shred and are on the ground just a few feet in front of the muzzle...I just use the .62cal for turkey, and may try a squirrel this year, so I don't shoot large volumes of shots through it.

 

[taylorh]

Okay, last night I used butcher paper (waxed on the inside)wrapped around a .5 inch dowel with a single layer of duct tape to fatten it up to about .525 ish, about six inches long. The diameter was such that I could just push a 28 gauge shot-cup into the dowel (very snug). I loaded the powder end with 70g pyrodex, and the shot end with 1 ounce of 7 1/2 shot. Tied both ends. I would have used the circle fly wads, but they were too fat inside the paper wrapping. My plan is to tear the powder end, then drop and stuff it. If I get the slug effect I'll tear the top also and use an over-shot card. I'm begining to think the shot and powder chargers are the way to go. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[CrackStock]

I made a slightly underbore sized paper container with a folded bottom and a twisted top. I secured the side with a piece of tape that was doubled over on one end to give me an easy hold to tear it off while loading. I dump powder, run an over powder and half of a lubed cushion wad down. I then press the shot cartridge into the top of the bore, remove the tape and press until the shot is level with the muzzle. I then tear the paper even with the bore. Then I put an overshot card and run these down together.

The shot is not held together by the paper, but the paper keeps the pellets from contact with the bore.

I will not win any speed contests, but it works. My thinking is that I will not get a quick second shot on a turkey, but I do want the best first shot possible, so this effort is worthwhile for me.

CS

 

[Dave K]

Roundball, remember when I mentioned on another thread about using a turkey hunting vest? This is why. I tried the paper shot cartridges and I could do no better than shoot a slug. Using a shot pouch and powder flask works great! Try to find that thread I posted and you will be amazed how quickly you can reload! :winking:

 

[Bear Rider]

I make cumbustable cartridges for reloading my percussion revolver. As I read this thread it occurred to me that you might try forming your paper cartridge around a dowel with a taper, like I do for the revolver. This makes the cartridge easier to load, and it causes it to split when the charge is rammed home.

 

[flint62]

I shoot a 62 smoothbore, I made a mandrel that measures .595" I use heavy typing paper cut to wrap twice around the mandrel. Gluestick to close and at one end I put one card wad, the over powder type. Fold over the ends and glue shut.
Add shot I generally use 1 1/2 oz. # 4 or 6 shot. One more wad over the shot and fold the ends over and glue.
Here's the trick though, I use oatmeal as a buffer between powder and shot cup.
Absolute murder on squirrels.
This year I want to try dipping the tubes in beeswax and crisco to see if it will keep the fouling soft andallow a faster reload.