curt songer
32 Cal.
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whats you all's favorite load for the 54 to deer hunt with?
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favorite 54 cal rifle load for deer?
- Thread starter curt songer
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Just sighted my two .54s in with,
90 grns Swiss 3F
Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" bear greased pillow ticking
Hornady .530/230grn ball
90 grns Swiss 3F
Oxyoke wonderwad
.018" bear greased pillow ticking
Hornady .530/230grn ball
Gil Martin
32 Cal.
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I use 90 grains FFG powder, .015" prelubed patch and 230 grain .530" Hornady or Speer lead ball. All the best...
Gil
Gil
same load as roundball, except I cast my balls to 527; I find that my Colerain barrel eats those better.
When I use my GP, (redone with an L&R lock and Davis triggers), I can use 535's but find that for hunting I am better off with 530's.
When I use my GP, (redone with an L&R lock and Davis triggers), I can use 535's but find that for hunting I am better off with 530's.
86 Gr FFg
0.018" Patch
.530" cast ball
I use 90 Gr FFg in my Renegade for years.
0.018" Patch
.530" cast ball
I use 90 Gr FFg in my Renegade for years.
I have taken several deer with a 70 gr charge of fffg. It is mild to shoot, very accurate and consistantly punches holes clean through whitetails. More power is a mantra from the modern era. Deer are relatively easy to kill when the ball is placed right and durn near indestructable when it isn't. Ofcourse if I ever get to hunt elk, moose or caribou the charge will increase accordingly.
Britches
Britches
SimonKenton
50 Cal.
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Swamp Rat,
I e-mailed the techie at Maine Powder House and he assured me that FFFg was totally unsuitable in a .54 as it would cause massive errosion of the rifling. How long have you been using that load and are there any signs yet of excessive wear on the lands?
I've seen load data for 100-120gr. Swiss FFg that seemed to pack a serious punch. I used to use 120 grains GOEX FFFg (sometimes 140) and got good accuracy from a slow twist GM barrel. I now use Rice barrels exclusively and on my .54s L.C. cuts a 1 in 72" twist with deep grooved round bottom rifling. That's the so-called "Sharon twist" used on the famous Hawken reproductions albeit with square grooves.
-Ray :huh:
I e-mailed the techie at Maine Powder House and he assured me that FFFg was totally unsuitable in a .54 as it would cause massive errosion of the rifling. How long have you been using that load and are there any signs yet of excessive wear on the lands?
I've seen load data for 100-120gr. Swiss FFg that seemed to pack a serious punch. I used to use 120 grains GOEX FFFg (sometimes 140) and got good accuracy from a slow twist GM barrel. I now use Rice barrels exclusively and on my .54s L.C. cuts a 1 in 72" twist with deep grooved round bottom rifling. That's the so-called "Sharon twist" used on the famous Hawken reproductions albeit with square grooves.
-Ray :huh:
If the established industry standard of reducing 2F load data by 10-15% when using 3F, to maintain equivalent pressures, I'm puzzleled to see how it would be a problem;
But if it would be, then the next question is:
If even the reduced 3F charges would still be a problem, then approximately how many shots would it take to cause a problem with a barrel? 1000? 5,000? 10,000? etc...
I only use enough high power charges to sight in a deer load, then maybe take a couple shots a season...so I guess I can't imagine ever wearing out any of my barrels using 90grns of Goex 3F for slippery patched round ball loads...probably fired 20-30 shots sighting in and 10-20 shots since.
Wonder if the techie was spouting an old wives tale...
:shocking:
I have shot 3F in my 54 for the past 15 years, both hunting, target practicing, even competitively. Never saw a problem, never had anything happen to my rifling, never had a drop in accuracy. Think this is an old tale, better left there. As long as you have reasonable loads(regardless of granulation) and CLEAN the darned thing at the end of the day, there will be no problem. :m2c:
One of the guru's of the last few years published a paper about erosion using 3f in large caliber barrels claiming that it caused a lot of damage. The recommendation was to use 2f in everything you could work up a good load for using 2f. I have always shot 50's, and I have always used either P or 3f. After a few thousand rounds the barrels do tend to get a touch rough down in the load area. A patch between shots gets real easy to hang up. When it gets that way, I polish it back out and go on. 2f is likely better for the gun tho.
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Thanks for the warning but I'm not going to worry about it to much right now. My 1792 most likely will be retired after this hunting season and will spend most of it's time displayed on the wall. The 1803 Harpers Ferry I just sighted in, has had only 20 rounds through it thus far and after this season, will find it's self in a semi-retired state as I hope to have my custom flintlock ready for next year...I'll make sure to get 2F Swiss by then. 
eace:
eace:
Herb
54 Cal.
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This Maine Powder House techie has given you an opinion. You might ask him what it is based on. Lyman's Blackpowder Handbook (10th printing August 1992) details tests of G-O 2Fg versus G-O 3Fg in a .54 caliber pressure gun (that is Gearhart Owen powder, now replaced by Goex).
They said:
'Weight for weight the 3F does produce greater velocity and pressure. A comparison of velocities and charge weights proves interesting as illustrated in the following example from the above chart.' (which was tests of 3F and 2F in 20 grain increments from 40 grains to 180 grains, (you read that right) for velocity and pressure).
CHARGE VELOCITY PRESSURE
140 grs. 2f 1779 FPS 8500 LUP
100 grs. 3F 1740 FPS 11700 LUP
____________ ________ _________
40 grs. 39 FPS 3200 LUP
'Nearly equal velocities are obtained through the use of a notably lightrer charge of 3F powder. Pressure, while up, is not at all alarming and this loading will minimize fouling-an importaint benefit to the roundball shooter.
We then decided to use FFFg in all but .58 and .75 caliber during the Rifle and Musket tests. FFg would be used in .58, .75, 12 gauge and 20 gauge.'
Now to the same publication, 2nd edition written by Sam Fadala, published 2001. They again use 3F up through the .54 caliber, Goex, Goex Clear Shot and Elephant brands. (Also Pyrodex P, a 3F equivalent). Same maximum charge of 120 grains. Velocity and pressure comparison for 230 grain roundball in .54 caliber with 120 grains 2F got 1803 fps (32" bbl) with 8,300 PSI and 120 grains of Goex 3F gave 1735 fps with 8,300 PSI. (that's their numbers). And lest you should pucker up over those heavy loads and pressures, this manual shows many loads, especially in .45 and .50 calibers with conicals, with pressures above 20,000 PSI, one I note at the moment that is 33,500 PSI.
I have a friend here, Dean, who made a copy of the old Green River Rifle Works Hawken from their parts (back in the '70's I suppose), .54 caliber. He said he and friends would often use up 7 pounds of 3F black powder over a weekend at his cabin, informal shooting. He uses 80 grains of 3F, and he probably shot 50 to 100 pounds of it through that rifle. I shot it and chronographed it, and the bore is not rusted or pitted. 80 grains of Goex 3F gave 1725 fps, 34 inch barrel. So to anyone who wants to use 3F in a .54 caliber, you might find other things to worry about.
My own open country mule deer load for .54? In my Green River Leman (I made it in their shop in a class) with a 34" .54 Orion switch barrel (from the original .45 caliber), I use a Hornady .530 round ball and 120 grains of Goex 2F at about 1860 fps.
They said:
'Weight for weight the 3F does produce greater velocity and pressure. A comparison of velocities and charge weights proves interesting as illustrated in the following example from the above chart.' (which was tests of 3F and 2F in 20 grain increments from 40 grains to 180 grains, (you read that right) for velocity and pressure).
CHARGE VELOCITY PRESSURE
140 grs. 2f 1779 FPS 8500 LUP
100 grs. 3F 1740 FPS 11700 LUP
____________ ________ _________
40 grs. 39 FPS 3200 LUP
'Nearly equal velocities are obtained through the use of a notably lightrer charge of 3F powder. Pressure, while up, is not at all alarming and this loading will minimize fouling-an importaint benefit to the roundball shooter.
We then decided to use FFFg in all but .58 and .75 caliber during the Rifle and Musket tests. FFg would be used in .58, .75, 12 gauge and 20 gauge.'
Now to the same publication, 2nd edition written by Sam Fadala, published 2001. They again use 3F up through the .54 caliber, Goex, Goex Clear Shot and Elephant brands. (Also Pyrodex P, a 3F equivalent). Same maximum charge of 120 grains. Velocity and pressure comparison for 230 grain roundball in .54 caliber with 120 grains 2F got 1803 fps (32" bbl) with 8,300 PSI and 120 grains of Goex 3F gave 1735 fps with 8,300 PSI. (that's their numbers). And lest you should pucker up over those heavy loads and pressures, this manual shows many loads, especially in .45 and .50 calibers with conicals, with pressures above 20,000 PSI, one I note at the moment that is 33,500 PSI.
I have a friend here, Dean, who made a copy of the old Green River Rifle Works Hawken from their parts (back in the '70's I suppose), .54 caliber. He said he and friends would often use up 7 pounds of 3F black powder over a weekend at his cabin, informal shooting. He uses 80 grains of 3F, and he probably shot 50 to 100 pounds of it through that rifle. I shot it and chronographed it, and the bore is not rusted or pitted. 80 grains of Goex 3F gave 1725 fps, 34 inch barrel. So to anyone who wants to use 3F in a .54 caliber, you might find other things to worry about.
My own open country mule deer load for .54? In my Green River Leman (I made it in their shop in a class) with a 34" .54 Orion switch barrel (from the original .45 caliber), I use a Hornady .530 round ball and 120 grains of Goex 2F at about 1860 fps.
Mike Brooks
Cannon
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What ever shoots the best groups in the rifle. That varies from rifle to rifle.
I've had some that shot best with 60gr. and some that won't settle in with any less than 90gr. It doesn't take a whole of of powder to kill a deer, and I don't use any different load for hunting than I do target. No hunters "magnum" load for me.
I agree with Mike on this issue. I took a Pa. doe on Monday with a .535 round ball wrapped in a .015 lubed patch, settled on a charge of 80 grains of 3F Goex. She was running and traveled about 5 feet after being hit with this load. Each rifle has it own tastes in powder, patch, and ball. That's why we give these guns names. :thumbsup:
Based on everything I learned and read, including all those swme Lyman and Fadala manuals, I also use Goex 3F in .45/.50/.54.
I reduce TC's published 2F load data by 15% and get extremely accurate performance with very little fouling...my deer hunting load is 90grns Goex 3F, OxYoke wad, .018" pillow ticking, Hornady .440/.490/.530...28" and 32" barrels. (I use Goex 2F in the .58 & .62)
I reduce TC's published 2F load data by 15% and get extremely accurate performance with very little fouling...my deer hunting load is 90grns Goex 3F, OxYoke wad, .018" pillow ticking, Hornady .440/.490/.530...28" and 32" barrels. (I use Goex 2F in the .58 & .62)
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