Ferguson Rifle

[Mark Nasim]

Eventually I am going to have one of these made,and considering the cost, I have plenty of time to save up for one and I am trying to do as much research on these rifles as possible.
But does any one know if and of the Ferguson rifles had any engraving on the barrel,tank,breech plug,lock etc.. and did any of them have any carving on the wrist(checkered grip)or anywhere else.
Could any of them have been specially made for purchases by officers with any of the above options?

 

[robinghewitt]

I think you should copy the one made by Durs Egg for the Prince of Wales in 1782 ::

 

[LSU TIGER]

If you have the time to wait, TRS has the parts. Waiting is the problem, as your grandkids my be graduating before you get the parts!

 

[Mark Nasim]

WOW!!!!! Where did that picture come from,I have never seen a Ferguson like that.

But I also meant to put in my orifinal posting, since the ferguson Rifle used a smaller caliber ball as say the brown Bess,was there a particular/special type cartridge box also issued with the few Ferguson rifles that were delivered.
I understand that some carbines and Officers fusils were also calibered in .62 and .65 as well,so my guess is the y probably just used a small belly box that was typical with the use of fusls and carbines.

I havent ordered my parts yet,and yes I know what the wait is from the RS. I have however seen a few of them for sell in the last few years that Narragasett(sp?) arms made,andthey are going for $3500-4500, but thats about what you will pay for parts and to get one built in the end anyway depending on who builds it for you. It will probably be the last rifle I will aquire for my collection mainly due to the cost. Im working on getting all my Long Land Pattern/Short Land Brown Bess models made right now.
The Ferguson and a 1776 rifle will be the last two I plan to have built.

 

[jkingrph]

being a newbie what is TRS

 

[Rebel]

The Rifle Shoppe

 

[WRussell]

Here's their site
http://www.therifleshoppe.com/

He must have more patterns than anyone in the business, but he doesn't do the best job of running a business. To put it mildly.

Good luck.

 

[Puffer]

Eventually I am going to have one of these made,and considering the cost, I have plenty of time to save up for one and I am trying to do as much research on these rifles as possible.
But does any one know if and of the Ferguson rifles had any engraving on the barrel,tank,breech plug,lock etc.. and did any of them have any carving on the wrist(checkered grip)or anywhere else.
Could any of them have been specially made for purchases by officers with any of the above options?

Before you do anything, GET the following Book ---

"British Military Flintlock Rifles 1740-1840" _ By, DeWitt Bailey Ph.D _ Andrew Mowbray Publishers Lincoln,Rhode Island 2002

This book has an extensive section (about 1/4 of the book) on the Ferguson rifle. Lots of pic.s,who carried them, performance reports & accuracy tests(ran by the British gov.

It also has a great Appendix (#6) article, "British Pattern 1776 and Ferguson Rifle - Performance Judged by Test Firing Modern Replicas" This also would answer many of the ?? on a resent prior post as to the reliability & accuracy :imo no mention of "leather washer")
It is also one of the BEST books I have found on the Baker Rifle :imo:

I got my copy from Track of the Wolf www.trackofthewolf.com

Puffer

 

[Flint1]

Brownbess, since you live in SC, take some time off and travel to King's Mountain. I was there this past weekend, and they now have an original Ferguson on display. It looks like it is a permanenet display, rather than a temporary one for the 225th anniversary. It is an officers, or sporting, model, and has a checkered wrist. It's a great opportunity to view an original close by without traveling to England. Take some time and study it. You can do like me and get on your hands and knees and look at it from below, side to side, all angles--I'm a Civil War collector and do strange things like that around relics, even if they're not CW. The book Puffer mentioned is for sale at the visitors center. Have fun!

 

[Story]

Found this on another board, of peripheral interest:

After a couple of the posts below, i dug out my copy of Blackmore's GUNS AND RIFLES OF THE WORLD.

Re references seveal earlier flintlock breechloaders using a vertical screw in like manner to Ferguson's. These included Isaac de la Chaumette, who had one where the screw pierced through tot he top of the breech in 1704, which he patented in England (along with other things he had devised) in 1721 when he moved there from France. His collegue Bidet (wonder if he was responsible for the French bathroom appliance of the same name?) built a number of arms on this proiciple, including examples made for George I, another at Windsor Castle, one at Leiden abd one at Frauenburg Castle in Czechoslovakia. Scandanavian examples of this general arrangement (in some cases horizontal instead of vertical movement) include products of Heinrich KAppel, Johan Merkel of Copenhagen (Master Gunsmith in 1706 - wonder if he is related to the founders of the present GErman Merkel firm?). In France Brion of PAris demonstrated this type arm to Marshal Saxe, who advocated its adoption in his memoirs of 1757, for use in carbines and wall guns as well as light field-pieces.

http://www.antiqueguns.com/pushpin/src/bbs.cgi?M::000001:020160::0

 

[pml]

a friend of mine is a ranger at valley forge
he says that there are three in existance or at least in the us.i've only seen the one at brandywine.
the one at kings mtn was out when i was there.
the third is at vf do you believe they dont feel its important enough to have on display?

 

[peter]

the washingtons headquarters museum at morristown nj has an original ferguson on display.

 

[Gary]

Another is at a Museum in the midwest (Minnesota?).

 

[Mark Nasim]

The Ferguson rifle at Kings Mountain from the last I heard IS NOT an original Ferguson rifle like so many people think they are. I heard this rifle was made back in the 1940's or something like that and aged to look like an original.I also heard that is was an original "of Ferguson design" but not of the original 200 that were issued to troops. But again, thats what I heard. I thought that there were only 4-5 of these in existence today. 2 being in museums in the US and the rest in England.There is also rumors that a collector in the US has an original from the the 200 lot that were originally issued. Whether that is true or not I am still trying to find out,but if it is true, he obviously is keeping it very hush hush and for good reason. I cant imagine how much an original of one of those would cost or be worth my guess would be easily six figures

 

[Gary]

You're correct. The Ferguson displayed at King's Mountain is indeed a reproduction. I'm given to understand that the breechplug isn't tapered like the original Ferguson was. The National Firearms Museum in Fairfax, Virginia also has a repro Ferguson displayed.

 

[Flint1]

The Ferguson currently on display at King's Mountain is NOT the same Ferguson which has previously been on display, which was a reproduction. The Ferguson on display now IS, according to what I've read about it regarding the 225th anniversary, an original. I've seen the reproduction previously on display a number of times and know beyond a doubt that the firearm currently on display is a different one. I understand King's Mountain previously had an original Ferguson on display, which was stolen in 1966. That rifle was recovered in Charleston, SC about 10 or 12 years ago--I don't know where it went after that.
If a private collector is fortunate enough to own an original Ferguson, it would have to be valued in the HIGH six figure range. As a Civil War collector, I've only seen one original Whitworth in a private collection--they are so rare they are omitted from the price guide. The Army of Tennessee received only about a dozen, and one of them was commandeered by Braxton Bragg as his personal souvenir. To give an idea of its rarity, a common three-ring .58 minie sells for about 1 or 2 dollars--the lead slug fired by the Whitworth brings a couple of hundered dollars. I can only imagine the value of an original Ferguson would be even more astronomical.

 

[Gary]

Thanks for the update RW1. I went to King's Mountain several years back before they remodeled the Visitors' Center. I'm glad to hear they've got a real Ferguson. Hopefully they have an alarm hooked up to their Law Enforcement Ranger as well as the local law enforcement. Scum who steal from the NPS should be publicly flogged.

 

[WRussell]

Story I heard was that when the original was recovered they set about upgrading the display to make it secure enough. Took a while, but they did it.

 

[lacerote]

where does the information come from that the orriginal Ferguson had a tapered breech plug ? When I recieved a copy of the orriginal Patent of the Ferguson rifle from Steve Sklaney it did not have a tapered breech plug which one would think would have been in Fergusons patent if that was the intended design ?

 

[Gary]

Narragansett Armes told me so in a letter. This is the original firm that was in Indianapolis before it was sold and moved elsewhere. They examined an original and discovered it was slightly tapered and reasoned that it helped with opening the action.

You can write the curators of the two museums to confirm it. Please post the letter as everyone here will be interested.