FFg or FFFg?

[mikee51848]

I see some who use FFFg powder in their guns, as opposed to FFg. I always thought, for a .50 cal, you had to use FFg. What type, and brand, do you use, and why?
Thanks for your answers! :hmm:

 

With 50 cal. I've always used whichever granulation shot best. To me the 50 has always been the dividing point between the use of FFg or FFFg. Either granulation has worked well for me over the years. There are those who use FFFg in larger calibers with good success and I don't believe that is wrong, not by a long shot. I've always had good success with FFg in calibers larger than 50 and never felt compelled to go with the smaller granulation. If I had a larger than 50 bore that didn't like FFg I'd certainly try a lighter charge of FFFg.

Generally FFFg will produce higher velocities and greater pressures at the same charge weight than FFg so one should reduce his FFFg charge by 10-25 grs., in the 50, and work up from there if it shows any imporvement over FFg.

There's my opinion and it's worth about what you paid for it!

Vic

 

[roundball]

I see some who use FFFg powder in their guns, as opposed to FFg. I always thought, for a .50 cal, you had to use FFg. What type, and brand, do you use, and why?
Thanks for your answers! :hmm:

Old rules of thumb die hard...powder is not caliber specific...the consideration is pressure.

FFFg burns quicker than FFg producing a sharper spike on the pressure curve sooner, so you just reduce the FFg load data.
Straight from TC Arms: "reduce FFg load data by 10-15%"

I use nothing but Goex FFFg in .45/.50/.54...both target and hunting loads...fast, clean, and accurate.

 

[Big John]

FFg is a rule of thumb for .50 cal., it's fine i personally use FFFg, less fouling, more velocity, and in my flinter, fewer miss fires. Goex,Swiss,Elephant and American Pioneer are the most common powders to use, but like everything with b.p. shooters it's a matter of decisions on which one(patch,powder,ball,lube and oil) to use and work from there. Also choices are usually based on what is available where you live.

 

[booshway]

Sharps 4590 said: "Generally FFFg will produce higher velocities and greater pressures at the same charge weight than FFg so one should reduce his FFFg charge by 10-25 grs., in the 50, and work up from there if it shows any imporvement over FFg."
I would venture a guess that you meant "same charge volume" not weight, since we load using a powder measure. I don't think that the two powders would weigh the same, volume for volume. I think that the combination faster burn because of more surface area in the finer grain FFFg and the slightly more weight because of less air space between grains accounts for the increased pressure and spike. Just my guess. Any input from other shooters would be appreciated. I've always heard that you should reduce the charge by 1/3 when going from FFg to FFFg. If you have a powder scale, could someone weigh equal volumes of the two powders for us?

 

I use Goex fffg in my .50 (and smaller) rifles. I used to have a .58 and used ffg in it. Currently building a .54 and will have to experiment with ffg vs fffg. Some folks report better accuracy with ffg in the bigger bores, some prefer fffg. need to test it out. I like fffg because I can load and prime my flintlock with the same powder--the difference between ffffg and fffg for priming is not noticeable. :m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

I've always heard that you should reduce the charge by 1/3 when going from FFg to FFFg.

We did this last summer and found about a 6 to 8% increase in weight for FFFg over FFg in the same volume. (i.e. 84 gr FFg is the same volume as 90 gr FFFg). FFFg has smaller kernels and packs together tighter with less air space. It is burning faster though, so dropping back 10 or 15% is a safe, conservative practice. 1/3 is way more than necessary.

I use FFg exclusively in my .50 and .54 (and 12 gauge and .66 cal). If you check the GOEX website they don't list FFFg loads in any caliber over .40, and even show some FFg loads for .40 rifles.

I never noticed any difference in fouling from FFFg vs. FFg, but then I wasn't looking for any and was only using FFFg in desperation when I ran out of FFg. I had to clean up in either case. :haha:

I did another "test" and found that the calibrations were wrong on all three of my calibrated measures (two T/C one Italian), the worst reading 20% less than what was actually thrown! That certainly startled me. :shocking: Anytime I make an antler or bone measure I size it by weight and record it on a card I keep in with my supplies for future reference. I also now have reference charts for my calibrated measures. What it says vs. what it is.

 

booshway...I stand corrected. I did mean "volume". Thanks for catching that.

I never heard of reducing the charge 1/3 when changing granulation....but there's lots I haven't heard, especially as I age gracefully....

Vic

 

[Rat]

It kind of looks to me that you can use either one, for most bore sizes, with normal loads. Probably the main thing is to try both, and see what works best for you in your rifle. Don't believe anyone when they say: "has to, have to", etc.

In big bores, (over .58) and long barrels, and very heavy loads, is probably when ffg begins to shine.

And there are[url] exceptions...in[/url] my .75 fffg works fine, even though I use ffg. Fg, which in theory would be ideal for that big a bore and over 100 grain loads, works lousy in it. Fouls badly with shot loads, and kills the patches with ball loads. Go figure.

You'd think my .58" minnie rifle (oops non-flinter content) with it's long barrel, and heavy loads would be a no-brainer for ffg, but it will shoot into 2.15" at 75 yards with 100 grains of fffg. Can't really argue with that, although I plan to switch to ffg soon...as long as it groups as well.

I use ffg in my .62", works perfect...but I would not be afraid to use a reduced charge of fffg if I had to, I'm sure results would be fine.

But in the small bores, under .58, with normal loads fffg and ffg probably work equally well, generally speaking, individual rifles sometimes prefering one over the other obviously. Try both.

Goex is great, but SWISS POWDER RULES!! YEAH BABY!!!!!

Rat

 

[Tumblernotch]

In my .40 I use FFFg and I have used both FFg and FFFg in my .577 Richmond (oops! percussion gun). I use FFg in my Charleville, though I have experimented with Fg. I tried FFFg in it once and when I rammed my load I blew half of it out the touchhole. The .577 barrel likes both granulations, fouls a little less with FFg, but groups a little tighter with FFFg and with a slightly smaller charge. I need to sit down at the bench some day and do some serious comparisons. It's been a long time since I've done that. I get lazy and forget what works best and lose my notes, and well, you know what happens then.
Oh, by the way, I usually use Goex now that my supply of Dupont is gone. I like Swiss, but can only get it sporadically. I have used Elephant with pretty good results, but prefer Goex or Swiss.

 

[aragorn]

Can some of you also suggest how many grains you use, FFg or FFFg, for a 50 cal, as a typical hunting load or for good range shooting?

 

[roundball]

Can some of you also suggest how many grains you use, FFg or FFFg, for a 50 cal, as a typical hunting load or for good range shooting?

My loads are as follows:

TARGETS
50grns Goex 3F
.018" TC prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .490

DEER HUNTING
90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wonder wad (.54cal)
.018" TC prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .490

 

[riarcher]

Just to muddy the waters a bit;
I've had .50's and .54's that did well with 2F and round ball, But not with Maxis
Maxi's liked 3F MUCH better, but 3F and RB blew the patch.
I "think" the faster burning (preasure spike) of 3Fg expanded the Maxies better (faster?) to engage the rifling and gave me better groups.
Where on the RB's it was so fast it just pushed by the RBs before the ball started down the barrel and lagged long enough to blow the patch (?) Just a guess,, but it seems reasonable to me (Never tried wads on the 3F/RB, probably would of cured all?)
Just anouther "to consider" in addition to all the above. :m2c: :sorry:

 

[Dave K]

Of course all guns seem to have their own set of rules, but my 50's make me happier shooting 2F. I am now using Swiss and my load for 100yd. target and deer hunting is 70gr. When I was using Goex it was 90gr. of 2F. I like the seemingly reduced recoil. It is a softer push on the shoulder. Fouling will increase using the 2F Goex over the 3F Goex, but I can't tell any change significant with the Swiss.I tried using 3F Goex in my shotguns(20ga-12ga.). I found the recoil to be too sharp for an afternoon of trap or clay shooting. I also become concerned with the long effects on some of them slender wrists taking that recoil for over a 100 shots in a day. The 2F works great for me.So I use 2F Swiss in 50cal. and over rifles and 2F Goex or Schuetzen in shotguns. I know Schuetzen is a new powder, but you won't be disappointed with it, good stuff.

 

[Tahquamenon]

Both 2F & 3F depending on the load and rifle.

I prefer Swiss. The most clean, accurate and powerful I've shot. Got several pounds of 2F&3F.

Goex is also very good. I've got 3F in Goex and it shoots very well.

Elephant is about the only BP that I'll never use again. Way too much fouling (Filthy is a better term) and the velocity was not there.

:m2c:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Can some of you also suggest how many grains you use, FFg or FFFg, for a 50 cal, as a typical hunting load or for good range shooting?

I use 84 gr FFg for hunting (.490 PRB & 0.018" patch) and 42 gr FFg for small game and plinking/target under 50 yards.

Those may seem like odd weights, but my "90 grain" brass fixed measure throws 84 grains FFg, and an empty .45 LC case holds 42 gr. I use those standards as benchmarks for the turkey thigh bone measures I make.

 

[blackpowder shooter]

I use 3f in everything up to .54. Seems to group in nice in my .45 and .54 with 70 gr.3f. I figure you use 20 % less powder than in 2f. You will get a differant opinion from every black powder shooter you speak with. That is what makes this sport so interesting. It is alot more challanging than dropping a bullet into the action of the gun and pulling the trigger. The bottom line in my opinion is what ever you sight the gun in for. You have to spend the time at the range. I figure at least 8 hours to sight a blackpowder rifle in. :imo:

 

[Bob J]

Can some of you also suggest how many grains you use, FFg or FFFg, for a 50 cal, as a typical hunting load or for good range shooting?

I use those standards as benchmarks for the turkey thigh bone measures I make.

Stumpy-Could you elaborate on the turkey thigh bone measures? Sounds interesting. I was thinking about making a 60 gr and a 90 gr measure out of antler :hmm:. But with a turkey hunting trip slated for next week...

 

[cayugad]

Today in my T/C Hawkins Flintlock I was shooting 90 grains of Goex 3f and a patched roundball. I cut the charge down to 70 grains with a wonderwad when shooting maxiball. Accuracy was excellent in both cases.

Yesterday in my .54 caliber Lyman Trade Rifle I was shooting 100 grains of Goex 2f and a patched roundball.

It all depends on what your rifle likes I guess. And it is a lot of fun testing different loads to figure it out...

 

[popgun]

I've always used 3f for both the prime and main charge in my .45 and .50 cal. flintlocks. I have a can of 2f that I may have to try in the .50 some day, but then I'd still have to carry 3f to prime with. :shake: