flint vs. percussion

[Claude Mathis]

My first muzzleloader was flint and it fired the first time I loaded it.

Me too. :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

"My first muzzleloader was flint and it fired the first time I loaded it."

They seem to have a habit of doing that if one follows a few very simple, basic guidlines I would not steer anyone away from a good flinter as
first ML..note I said good flinter, the junk is what breaks the spirits of the new flintshooters, but there are enough folks here to keep someone new to flinter/ML's on the right path.

 

[nchawkeye]

My first muzzleloader was a custom built flintlock
that I bought in 1977...The first range session, I was shooting 10s at 50 yards...I've got plenty of buddies that bought percussion rifles back in the 70s and 80s...None were more reliable than my flintlock and none of these guys currently hunt with sidelocks, all are inline shooters...

I've never owned a production muzzleloader, never plan to...

Do yourself a favor, go with the flinter...Then your buddies will think you are "touched"...The next thing, you'll be taking your flintlock hunting and wearing funny clothes...The looks you get when you walk in a resturant are priceless...

 

[vern faulkner]

I'm about to purchase my 1st BP rifle. I've shot both traditonal percussion and the newer inline rifles, but never a flint. I've made my mind up to get a Lyman Great Plains in .54, and thought mainly about percussion. Knowing that I'm going to shoot balls and patches, do I go "balls to the wall" and get a flint. How much trouble are they, and how often do you encounter problems such as miss fires?

:2 My first B/P gun was a flintlock, and I've never regretted it. I was(and still am) a slow learner and there wasn't many people shooting them(at least that I knew of) near where I lived. All that I learned I learned the hard way. But that's what made it all so rewarding. I'm still learning today(probably because I forgot a lot). For me, it's been a real love affair. Don't let the idea that it's too difficult scare you away from them. :v

 

[chuck-ia]

Doesn't really matter which one, if your interest holds out you will have one of each, after a while I would bet you will start thinking about selling the caplock,and thinking about a custom flintlock. I have had both caplock and flintlock Great Plains rifles, the flintlock worked good after drilling the touch hole to 5/64".flinch

 

[erzengel]

If you are infected by the bp virus deeply :thumbsup: , go for the flint.

Though I started with percussion and needed twenty years to try a flint, the flint is the real thing.

Only make sure, you have a good lock to avoid the labour of bringing it to shoot though if you have the will to hold on until usccess, that can be itself rewarding because you got it working.

 

[Finnwolf]

GA,
Don't let anyone blow sunshine up your kilt about flintlocks. Some people will tell you they never misfire if you "take care of 'em right" and if "you know what you're doing". I've been hunting with flintlocks for over 20 years in a state that used to allow ONLY flintlocks shooting patched roundball.
I've used only T/C guns but lots of friends have GPRs. Both guns share a similar coil spring lock and both have had pooer geometry in lock design and poor metalurgy in the components (mostly the frizzen). Many times, the touch hole is also poorly placed. All this considered, these guns will still fire about 9 times in 10, but they WILL misfire. There is a reason that most guns were converted to percussion in the generation after it was developed. There is a reason that all the world's military powers converted to percussion as quickly as they did.
I've only recently started with cap guns but I have yet to have a misfire in nearly 2 years. I now enjoy going to the range without the aggravation of having misfires and the flinch I developed from years of shooting T/Cs is nearly gone.
I spend a lot of time taking care of all my BP guns, making sure they are clean, making sure the flints are good and mounted properly. I always take care of my pan powder and keep it fresh and dry. I know how to protect my flintlock when the weather is wet. Still, expect a 1 in 10 failure rate and some slowfires that will cause you to miss your target.
I've missed 3 nice deer over the years because my gun wouldn't fire. If this level of performance wouldn't bother you, then you are right for a flintlock. If you have any doubt, get the capper. I'll still hunt with a flintlock, partly because it's the law and partly 'cause I love it but that flintlock is now a custom made gun with a Siler lock. I know it will still misfire on occasion but not as much as a production gun.
Don't believe me, borrow a GPR if you know someone who has one or just go to the range with him and see for yourself. Don't let the manly flintlock police push you into a decision

 

[tg]

"Don't let the manly flintlock police push you into a decision"

I haven't seen any flintlock police.."manly" Jebuss get real, the point most are making for the flintlock is that with a good flintlock there is really no vast difference between potential performance, both are capable of a missfire...not how fast the cartridge guns caught on, part of the cap or flint experience is the less than 100% reliability, just like in the past and many like to try and experience shooting/hunting as it was done with the low tech ML's if one cannot suffer a missfire or get within the limits of open sights and PRB they may be better suited for a bolt action 30-06, therre have been many opinions given to the one who started this post, now he has what it takes to make an intelligent and informed choice..."manly flintlock shooters" that's just sad.

 

[roundball]

I agree...I don't know any other Flintlock shooter who has had years of chronic Flintlock failures.

 

[rabjr]

GA,
Don't let anyone blow sunshine up your kilt about flintlocks. Some people will tell you they never misfire if you "take care of 'em right" and if "you know what you're doing". I've been hunting with flintlocks for over 20 years in a state that used to allow ONLY flintlocks shooting patched roundball.
I've used only T/C guns but lots of friends have GPRs. Both guns share a similar coil spring lock and both have had pooer geometry in lock design and poor metalurgy in the components (mostly the frizzen). Many times, the touch hole is also poorly placed. All this considered, these guns will still fire about 9 times in 10, but they WILL misfire. There is a reason that most guns were converted to percussion in the generation after it was developed. There is a reason that all the world's military powers converted to percussion as quickly as they did.
I've only recently started with cap guns but I have yet to have a misfire in nearly 2 years. I now enjoy going to the range without the aggravation of having misfires and the flinch I developed from years of shooting T/Cs is nearly gone.
I spend a lot of time taking care of all my BP guns, making sure they are clean, making sure the flints are good and mounted properly. I always take care of my pan powder and keep it fresh and dry. I know how to protect my flintlock when the weather is wet. Still, expect a 1 in 10 failure rate and some slowfires that will cause you to miss your target.
I've missed 3 nice deer over the years because my gun wouldn't fire. If this level of performance wouldn't bother you, then you are right for a flintlock. If you have any doubt, get the capper. I'll still hunt with a flintlock, partly because it's the law and partly 'cause I love it but that flintlock is now a custom made gun with a Siler lock. I know it will still misfire on occasion but not as much as a production gun.
Don't believe me, borrow a GPR if you know someone who has one or just go to the range with him and see for yourself. Don't let the manly flintlock police push you into a decision

I can't comment on any of the comercial production flinterlocks as I never owned or shot one. But My custom flintlocks have yet to let me down. You have the right gun, load it right, should be no problem. I have yet to have a missfire since I started hunting with them in 2003, much to the dismay of a whole bunch of deer. I have missed two deer btw but it was my fault not the guns, as they fired no problem.

 

There is a reason that all the world's military powers converted to percussion as quickly as they did.

Yes, anything can misfire, that's not the point. Yes, the military constantly switches to the latest technology, that's not the point either or even worth mentioning, in my opinion.

If it was just a matter of keeping up with the military, we'd all be shooting semi-autos. If all people want is "efficiently", then buy a modern gun and be done with it. But, if you want some HISTORY and HERITAGE, perhaps a flintlock or even a matchlock is for you.

A person should shoot both and see what they like.

 

[FPDoc]

For several hundred years the flintlock was the "1st muzzleloader" for a lot of new shooters. :wink: Get what you want and learn, with some help from folks here, to use it.

 

[nchawkeye]

Finnwolf...If all you've ever owned were factory flintlocks then you ain't never really owned a flintlock... :grin:

 

[Homesteader]

Finnwolf...If all you've ever owned were factory flintlocks then you ain't never really owned a flintlock... :grin:

Brother, ain't that just the truth? I had a flintlock rifle that I thought was pretty good (a mere 40% failure to fire rate :shake: ) until I finally bit the bullet and ordered a custom built long flinter. Man, it's a night-and -day difference! Loved the custom built well tuned gun so much I ordered a second one, and it's every bit as good as the first. Custom is an order of magnitude better than production flinters, at least in my experience. (Thanks Roy!)

 

[tg]

Let's all remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if they are dead wrong :slap:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Well you posed the question on the flintlock forum so automatically you have a biased response group and some will let their enthusiasm overwhelm their common sense. This topic just came up in Elk camp where one one of the six of us (not I) was carrying a flint. After a very wet morning I said "Tom, do you think your flint will fire?" His enthusiastic answer was "yes, I do think it will but not with the 100% certainty you hear some people claim". I've shot flint for the past 15-20 years and I like them but there is no doubt you have to be more particular and pay attention to ever detail and even then there are more things to go wrong.
Finnwolf makes a very good point in how quickly the percussion ignition replaced flint. Clearly people "back in the day" saw the advantage, even if modern day flint lock enthusiasts do not want to admit it.
Writing "back in the day" of the 1840's, the young Englishman George Fredrick Ruxton said of the mountain men he met that they were really not very good marksmen and "many carried old flintlock guns which were constantly snapping and provided an excuse for missed shots".
I do like my flintlocks and do hunt with them but when it comes to one shot that I must absolutely depend upon I'd rather trust a cap, especially in wet weather.

 

[roundball]

"..If all you've ever owned were factory flintlocks then you ain't never really owned a flintlock..."

nchawkeye, I’m sure you don’t realize how elitist your comment sounds...I don’t have a camera in the truck all the time but here’s a sampling of 10 pointers, 8 pointers, turkeys, and squirrels using T/C Hawken Flintlocks with T/C’s mid-90’s redesigned lock assemblies...and many, many Does, lesser bucks, crows and doves are scattered throughout these as well. I’ve never had a Flintlock equipment failure when I’ve dropped a hammer and as much as I love hunting with Flintlocks I sure wouldn’t have wasted my time with them for the past 10 years if they weren’t 100% reliable.
The nice 8 pointer with the posted sign is just last year...I left the house with it raining and hunted in the rain for 4 hours...dropped him in his tracks without hesitation.

 

[tg]

The issue is not whether the flintlock is equal to the caplock in perfomance, or what folks in the past may have thought about one or the other,it is whether one should start with a flintlock and there is really no reason not to if one uses a quality gun/lock both ignition types can/do fail but there is no reason to fear the flinter will snap/ whish/ nothing on a regular basis,care and usage of the flinter require a bit different learning curve but I do not see why someone who has had experience with traditional guns should not start with a flinter, the caplocks have issuesd as well was it not a bunch of caplock hunters who could not get their guns to work that started Knight on his quest to modernize the ML rather than have folks learn how to use the original type?I would say which ever type cap/flint one feels attracted to would be a good choice as long as it is a quality gun, I see a great number of caplock hunters who who pull back and cannot let go of modern peep sights/connicals and other modern gear,a a "half arrsed" effort for lack of a better term, if you realy want to hunt with a traditional ML the flint is not a bad place to start, it may be a little more likely to keep one on the traditional path.


Hey Roundball nice pics...you shoot them all with a capper then put the flintlock in the pictures? Ya can't shoot that many critters with a production gun... I got yer number :stir: nice looking reminders of some great days in the woods. :thumbsup:

 

[rabjr]

Well will ya show Finnwolf how it's done then please!

 

[Homesteader]

I've gotta say your point is well taken. For my part I wasn't trying to be particularly elitist, I've just been surprised by how well my custom built fowler & new rifle (flinters) work for me compared to my one and only other flintlock rifle.

I've got several production caplocks that work perfectly every time, but that flinter just didn't. Could be my personal experience only.

That's why we ask for a bunch of opinions, right? That way we can average them out and get some idea of the way we want to go...
:surrender: :hmm: