Well guys I may be tempting fate but here goes. I have been shooting my T/C .50 since 1977 without any problem with loading or cleaning, and accuracy is superb shot after shot without cleaning between. I clean with scalding hot water (no soap or brushes) in a 1 gal can. When finished pumping hot water up the barrel for several (say 5) minutes it is so hot I can't hold it without gloves. I swab it dry and let it sit (say 3 min) then oil it heavily with ----SHUTTER SHUTTER---3in1 oil. Next time I go to shoot I run dry patches down the bore until I see no traces of oil. Then I snap 2 caps and load. Never have had a problem. My Maxi-Lube is gone though, and I am going to have to switch to Borebutter. :m2c:
Fouling shot?
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ff:What happened to the "fouling shot" discussion?Tahquamenon
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I think there are basically two approaches to shooting accuracy & consistency and really only one for hunting purposes.
One being strategic, or planned opportunity target/range shooting.
The other being tactical precise or hunting to rely on your best placed single shot.
Hunting with a Clean Barrel:
Shooting every time from a clean or very clean barrel results in one average point of impact. I follow and school this method for hunting as I always know where the POI is going to be and I sight accordingly and my barrel is protected for the duration I am a field. If a follow up shot is required, I swab clean, lube and re-load if time permits or I simply charge and load and follow up. With PRB, I will first swab the barrel with a natural lubed patch, add the main charge, load a wad then the PRB. As mentioned, you should be precise with your first shot and that's the one you want to rely on. Subsequent or follow-up shots can be a little off if you are not going to clean in-between shots. Plus, spending the day with the barrel of your rifle fouled and dirty does no favors for the bore in my view.
Planned shooting or Targeting with a moderately Fouled Barrel:
For planned targeting and extended range shooting, your first shot from a clean barrel may not always POI from subsequent shots. Thus, you are shooting for groups and may elect to foul the barrel before starting your targeting session for groups. Or you can still swab in-between shots. I do both if there is sufficient time and opportunity in-between each shot. Otherwise for extended sessions, I sight for slightly fouled barrel shooting for best groups without swabbing clean every shot. I clean every 6-10 shots depending on the powder type and it's fouling and how difficult loading becomes.
:imo:
One being strategic, or planned opportunity target/range shooting.
The other being tactical precise or hunting to rely on your best placed single shot.
Hunting with a Clean Barrel:
Shooting every time from a clean or very clean barrel results in one average point of impact. I follow and school this method for hunting as I always know where the POI is going to be and I sight accordingly and my barrel is protected for the duration I am a field. If a follow up shot is required, I swab clean, lube and re-load if time permits or I simply charge and load and follow up. With PRB, I will first swab the barrel with a natural lubed patch, add the main charge, load a wad then the PRB. As mentioned, you should be precise with your first shot and that's the one you want to rely on. Subsequent or follow-up shots can be a little off if you are not going to clean in-between shots. Plus, spending the day with the barrel of your rifle fouled and dirty does no favors for the bore in my view.
Planned shooting or Targeting with a moderately Fouled Barrel:
For planned targeting and extended range shooting, your first shot from a clean barrel may not always POI from subsequent shots. Thus, you are shooting for groups and may elect to foul the barrel before starting your targeting session for groups. Or you can still swab in-between shots. I do both if there is sufficient time and opportunity in-between each shot. Otherwise for extended sessions, I sight for slightly fouled barrel shooting for best groups without swabbing clean every shot. I clean every 6-10 shots depending on the powder type and it's fouling and how difficult loading becomes.
:imo:
Like Roundball said, if the rifle has been working and shooting well for you for this long, why would you worry or want to change. I'd just keep doing what I am doing...
The important part is to get out there and shoot... :thumbsup:
CrackStock
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Oom,
The first shot will likely have a different elevation than fouled shots. I would learn where this shot hits by practicing it everytime I went to the range and simply use that knowledge when hunting. You might carry a special target with you to the range for a while for only the first shot of the day.
I did this for a time with a Tennessee that I then used to hunt rabbits. Worked very well.
CS
The first shot will likely have a different elevation than fouled shots. I would learn where this shot hits by practicing it everytime I went to the range and simply use that knowledge when hunting. You might carry a special target with you to the range for a while for only the first shot of the day.
I did this for a time with a Tennessee that I then used to hunt rabbits. Worked very well.
CS
Rat
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I sight in with a clean barrel, but find that with my three rifles and one smoothbore, none of them shoot very far off when fouled...maybe an inch or so at most. Generally just a tad lower with the first shot, then with following shots. I don't get much or any left-right/windage variation between clean and dirty.
Generally when hunting you "should" only need one shot, but the fun thing about hunting is that anything can, and sometimes does happen. However, I think it's fairly safe to say that if you knock something down, and have to shoot it again, you'll be pretty close for the follow up shot, and one, two or even three inches won't make any meaningful difference...POI between a fouled and clean barrel really won't cause a miss. Remember that the kill zone on a deer is a good 12" circle. Makes sense to me to be sighted in with a clean barrel, because your first shot is more likely to be the long one.
I also believe that a clean rifle is more reliable, that's more of an issue to me, than fear of the bore rusting...but a rusting bore is another chance I'd rather not take. But those are two good reasons, for me, not to hunt with a fouled bore and breech.
Getting a rifle sighted in for a clean barrel can be time consuming, but I don't mind. Just plan the whole day at the range, take your time, and enjoy shooting. Also cleaning just the bore alone, with just one shot's worth of fouling, is pretty fast and easy. Don't have to cook up five gallons of hot water, (how did the old timers do THAT on the trail?) take the rifle apart, dance around it three times counter-clockwise and all that.
And of course sighting in the rifle with a clean barrel is the very last thing I do with said rifle, long after the load is perfected, desired accuracy level is achieved, and I'm sure I'll stick with the powder charge chosen...after all the experimentation is done.
RAT
Generally when hunting you "should" only need one shot, but the fun thing about hunting is that anything can, and sometimes does happen. However, I think it's fairly safe to say that if you knock something down, and have to shoot it again, you'll be pretty close for the follow up shot, and one, two or even three inches won't make any meaningful difference...POI between a fouled and clean barrel really won't cause a miss. Remember that the kill zone on a deer is a good 12" circle. Makes sense to me to be sighted in with a clean barrel, because your first shot is more likely to be the long one.
I also believe that a clean rifle is more reliable, that's more of an issue to me, than fear of the bore rusting...but a rusting bore is another chance I'd rather not take. But those are two good reasons, for me, not to hunt with a fouled bore and breech.
Getting a rifle sighted in for a clean barrel can be time consuming, but I don't mind. Just plan the whole day at the range, take your time, and enjoy shooting. Also cleaning just the bore alone, with just one shot's worth of fouling, is pretty fast and easy. Don't have to cook up five gallons of hot water, (how did the old timers do THAT on the trail?) take the rifle apart, dance around it three times counter-clockwise and all that.
And of course sighting in the rifle with a clean barrel is the very last thing I do with said rifle, long after the load is perfected, desired accuracy level is achieved, and I'm sure I'll stick with the powder charge chosen...after all the experimentation is done.
RAT
Howdy all!
When our shooting club compeates in black powder matches every shot counts so we don't get the so called fouling shot. Soooo, what we do is load our muzzleloader like we normally would and then we run a cleaning patch with SPG bullet lube heavely applied to it. The SGP bullet lube is hard enough to simulate fouling in the bore unlike borebutter or the like. It really works for our club where one or two inches in your target can make a big difference in your score and that is also what I do when hunting. A small stick of SPG bullet lube will go a long way and should last a couple of years. SPG bullet lube is made of all natural products so it is good for your muzzleloader.
I purchase it at the Track. Here is the link:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories...artNum=LUBE-SPG
Good luck! :front:
When our shooting club compeates in black powder matches every shot counts so we don't get the so called fouling shot. Soooo, what we do is load our muzzleloader like we normally would and then we run a cleaning patch with SPG bullet lube heavely applied to it. The SGP bullet lube is hard enough to simulate fouling in the bore unlike borebutter or the like. It really works for our club where one or two inches in your target can make a big difference in your score and that is also what I do when hunting. A small stick of SPG bullet lube will go a long way and should last a couple of years. SPG bullet lube is made of all natural products so it is good for your muzzleloader.
I purchase it at the Track. Here is the link:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories...artNum=LUBE-SPG
Good luck! :front:
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I went thru a week long test on my 54.
1st shot, clean barrel, then reload and fire the second.
I did this for a week, and had two nice groups at 100yds. Seven inches apart. [horizontal]
After loading a clean barrel, I run down a patch lubed with lots of Natural Lube 1000, and my groups came together. Not sure how many POUNDS of lead this took to find out!
Sharing on the internet is Great!
:results:
1st shot, clean barrel, then reload and fire the second.
I did this for a week, and had two nice groups at 100yds. Seven inches apart. [horizontal]
After loading a clean barrel, I run down a patch lubed with lots of Natural Lube 1000, and my groups came together. Not sure how many POUNDS of lead this took to find out!
Sharing on the internet is Great!
:results:
Ron LaClair
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Here's my fowling shot. :results:
I used to use a fouling shot. I was using 385 Hornady or Buffalo bullets over 100 grains of P. The first shot was a lot different from the second shot out of the fouled barrel. That is also what the instructions with the guns said to do. I kept a bore swab completely saturated with BB in my shooting bag. I would fire a fouling shot and then use that swab before loading. The BB would kind of seal the fouling so it did not draw as much moisture as it would without it. I could go all day and shoot dozens of shots with no problems. When the gun started to get hard to load, I used a brush before the swab. I would never patch the barrel clean all day. I never even considered not shooting that way. A few years back someone convinced me to try swabbing between shots. I run a wet patch on both sides and then a dry patch on both sides between every shot. The first shot in a clean barrel hits the same place as the last shot does if I do my part. I don't have to make the noise a fouling shot makes anymore. I don't have a gun full of burnt powder drawing moisture like a sponge anymore when I am hunting. I am not going back to the old way any time soon.
By the way, when I got my original CVA Mountain Rifle with the Douglas barrel a few years back, it had been "seasoned" using the T/C instructions. I started cleaning that crud out of that barrel the night I got it. I was still cleaning it three nights later. I propped the butt in one chair, the muzzle end in my lap, and just kept working while I watched TV. I have no idea how many patches I used. I used hot soapy water in a bucket several times. I wrapped a bronze brush with yarn so it would seal the barrel to suck water up behind it and brushed it that way in hot water and Dawn Complete for about an hour. I wrapped the brush with a green scratch pad and used that. I wadded up dry paper towel wads big enough that they had to be started with a mallet and drove them down the barrel. I then used a ball puller to start into the resulting hard paper wad that was formed to the rifling and used that to cut crud out deep in the rifling. I finally got the barrel to where it is in pretty decent shape with CLP and lots of work. Unless you intend to leave it that way, never ever season a barrel that will be used with real Black! When it builds up to the point where accuracy starts to go away, you will not believe what it takes to remove the burnt on crud. That episode clinched my cleaning between each shot and got me started looking for a lube different than BB. Don't get me wrong. As a patch lube the stuff is great. All of my guns shoot pretty well with it. I had always cleaned it all out after each session using modern products in my guns for years and had never had a problem. I used gun oil in my barrels and now use CLP or Balistol. If you ever get to clean a barrel that has been seasoned for years, you will never forget it. I am using a friend's Moose Milk type lube today.
A fouling shot is not needed if the gun is sighted in clean. In my guns, a spit patch run on both sides and then a dry patch on both sides is clean enough to keep the point of impact consistant. If you need a second quick shot while hunting, then by all means do a quick load and take your best shot. The difference in point of impact usually is not a factor because the second shot is most often a close range finisher.
By the way, when I got my original CVA Mountain Rifle with the Douglas barrel a few years back, it had been "seasoned" using the T/C instructions. I started cleaning that crud out of that barrel the night I got it. I was still cleaning it three nights later. I propped the butt in one chair, the muzzle end in my lap, and just kept working while I watched TV. I have no idea how many patches I used. I used hot soapy water in a bucket several times. I wrapped a bronze brush with yarn so it would seal the barrel to suck water up behind it and brushed it that way in hot water and Dawn Complete for about an hour. I wrapped the brush with a green scratch pad and used that. I wadded up dry paper towel wads big enough that they had to be started with a mallet and drove them down the barrel. I then used a ball puller to start into the resulting hard paper wad that was formed to the rifling and used that to cut crud out deep in the rifling. I finally got the barrel to where it is in pretty decent shape with CLP and lots of work. Unless you intend to leave it that way, never ever season a barrel that will be used with real Black! When it builds up to the point where accuracy starts to go away, you will not believe what it takes to remove the burnt on crud. That episode clinched my cleaning between each shot and got me started looking for a lube different than BB. Don't get me wrong. As a patch lube the stuff is great. All of my guns shoot pretty well with it. I had always cleaned it all out after each session using modern products in my guns for years and had never had a problem. I used gun oil in my barrels and now use CLP or Balistol. If you ever get to clean a barrel that has been seasoned for years, you will never forget it. I am using a friend's Moose Milk type lube today.
A fouling shot is not needed if the gun is sighted in clean. In my guns, a spit patch run on both sides and then a dry patch on both sides is clean enough to keep the point of impact consistant. If you need a second quick shot while hunting, then by all means do a quick load and take your best shot. The difference in point of impact usually is not a factor because the second shot is most often a close range finisher.
I happen to agree with that 100%...I also use nothing but Natural Lube 1000 bore butter, and lots of it, but I scrub the bore to the raw metal after every use with hot soapy water to prevent any form of build up what-so-ever.
I bought a couple of used TC barrels that had buildup like tar...finally tried Shooter's Choice Black Powder Cleaning Gel, and it's fantastic...no pain, no strain...dissolves all that crap in minutes.
NOTE:
Instructions say to thoroughly rinse the gel off any bore brushes and other items used or it'll dissolve them and it does. I didn't catch that the first time and the next day noticed half the bristles on a bronze brush were dissolved....checked the label and sure enough it warned about that.
Probably not a bad idea to periodically (annually?) add this 5-10 minute step to a cleaning regimen followed by the normal thorough cleaning & rinsing
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