Frizzen questions

[bigstick6017555]

I know there are no absolutes on this but what would be the estimated amount of flint strikes a frizzen could endure before losing sparking ability (hardness) to set off the pan powder. Also I have read articles and watched videos of re-hardening of a frizzen. Buying a new one may be the answer but if not available what would be considered the best do it your self process in your way of thinking.

 

[bigstick6017555]

Sorry I asked guys found answer to it on a search, pay no attention

 

[Pete G]

By the time you wear out a frizzen you will be too old to shoot (curry poppers excepted).

 

[LRB]

Totally depends on the steel, and how it was heat treated to start with. Original frizzens were wrought iron and case hardened. Life expectancy would depend on how deep the case was. Frizzens in most modern locks are high carbon steel making them dependent on the heat treat given and lock geometry.

 

[Art Caputo]

While I have yet to have a frizzen give up the ghost, were it to happen, I would likely look to a bit of polishing and re-hardening the original….Unless I’m missing something. Seems easier then re-fitting, and hardening a replacement.

 

[EC121]

Chambers says his frizzens are through-hardened. They should never quit sparking. Years ago I had a Dixie Ashmore that was surface hardened. It wore through the hardening in a couple of years of monthly shooting.

 

[olskool]

i have a Davis MG classic lock on my SMR, it had problems sparking if it did not have razor sharp flint, until after about 300 shots. then it got better and now it sparks a lot of fire even when the flint aint real sharp,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Grenadier1758]

By the time you wear out a frizzen you will be too old to shoot (curry poppers excepted).

I've known of many spaghetti strikers that wore the thin surface hardening off in short order.

A properly hardened frizzen will throw good sparks for many thousands of shots.

 

[JCKelly]

If you wear out your frizzen a new one is a great way to go, if you can find one that fits your lock.
Otherwise, do what was done in ancient times. That is, reface your frizzen. A piece cut from a wood saw blade is about the ideal hardness. SOFT solder it on & you will not draw the temper.
Reheat -treating should, in my opinion, only be considered if you have a lot of experience with such. That is, if you have made many mistakes and figured out what to do about them.
I say this as a metallurgist having made a share of mistakes on flint locks.
Old frizzens were often made of wrought iron and faced with steel.
You can see the brazed or soldered joint on this one.

This Ryan & Watson English pistol was new made with, I believe, an iron frizzen faced with steel.

It would take a long time to put a deep enough case on a wrought iron frizzen to give it much sparking life. In my opinion as a metallurgist, with some experience in case-carburized steel.

 

[LRB]

I believe 18th c. frizzens were only steel faced when the case hardening wore through, with the possible exception of some military guns. I have looked at quite a few originals over the years, and have only noticed a few steeled over frizzens. Just MHO.

 

[Artificer]

British Ordnance Pattern Land Muskets originally used the nomenclature "Hammer" for what we today know as the Frizzen. Though I can't put an exact date for it, it was changed to "The Steel" somewhere around mid 18th century and I think after Benjamin Huntsman developed his then new Crucible Steel manufacturing technique to make far better and less expensive steel than the older blister steel.

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

Unfortunately @Artificer, we all too often have to communicate with the use of the present terminology. I often struggle with the decision to refer to the parts with present terms or use the identifying labels of the 18th century.

I do support the facing of a soft "hammer" (frizzen) with a hardened steel facing as described previously.

 

[Artificer]

Unfortunately @Artificer, we all too often have to communicate with the use of the present terminology. I often struggle with the decision to refer to the parts with present terms or use the identifying labels of the 18th century.

I do support the facing of a soft "hammer" (frizzen) with a hardened steel facing as described previously.

Yeah, I now see I was a bit tired and didn't add something to my post above I should have.

I think when British Ordnance renamed the part "The Steel" (what we today call the Frizzen) it was due to starting to make that part completely from Steel in the mid 18th century.

Gus

 

[M. De Land]

So where did a goofy name like "frizzen" come from?

 

[Musketeer]

So where did a goofy name like "frizzen" come from?

Ricky Ricardo? "Lucy, call Fred and tell him to check the furnace...it's frizzen in here."

 

[Grenadier1758]

So where did a goofy name like "frizzen" come from?

Speculation is mostly what we have to go on. Some suggest that the origin has to to do with to noisily fry something or sizzle. or perhaps to curl or frizzle something by scraping. The sound of the catch and the resulting burning of the pan powder may seem to some like something burning noisily. And with the English being English made a noun out of defining something that fries powder into frizzen or make frizzen the name of the steel that is scraped. These are good a guess as any.

 

[Major Tim]

I've wondered if "frizzen" is a much newer term than most think. Is it possible that it came about the same time as the short starter? Like the late '60's early '70's?

It drives me nuts when a "Living History Expert" uses the new terminology while wearing period dress and etc!