Fusil de Chasse, at last!!!

[Flint62Smoothie]

I am wondering if blackening the brass would look better.

There shouldn't be any brass on trade FdC ... but if so, yes darken it.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Your best bet honestly, try to look at original guns in museums, online places etc. I've actually gone to a couple of museums just to look at guns, and in 2023 I took a class put on by the curator of Fort Ticonderoga where I was able to examine and handle original Brown Bess muskets.

Speaking of Fort Ticonderoga, you can go online and view their collection of artifacts because they have spent a great time in digitizing everything. I went online and found two French made fusils (they have more) in their collection. Each have detailed photos and close ups to get an idea. Both of these French made fusils were made at about the same time, in the 1740's-1750's. If you look, you can see how much they differ even though they were both French made. The point is, unlike military guns, there isn't one "exact" pattern when it came to guns of that time during the fur trade, especially among the French. Before you go changing anything or hear that "It was done this way" you have to realize things were made to a standard but there was a lot of variety even in one country's trade guns.

View attachment 391329

View attachment 391330

Interesting that both these examples have round faced locks, and not the “typical” flat ones.

 

[FlinterNick]

Interesting that both these examples have round faced locks, and not the “typical” flat ones.

Yeap not indicative of a tulle trade gun

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Interesting that both these examples have round faced locks, and not the “typical” flat ones.

Dates ... it's all about the date of the arm. And quite possibly the architecture might also align to the armory that produced them.

Per Russel Bouchard's book on Tulle arms titled: The Fusil de Tulle in New France, 1691-1741 (copyright 1998), the flat-faced locks began in 1716 for the contracts to the Tvlle (early spelling) or Tulle Armory.

I am only interested in FdC's from Tulle, so I sold off my book on the Native FdC trade guns by Kevin Gladysz, titled: The French Trade Gun in North America, 1662-1759 (copyright 2011), as it focused on arms from St. Entienne. I read it 3-times and underlined/dog-eared every page that mentioned Tulle and the info was scarce.

Oh, one 'nit pick' and pet peeve while I have you all ... I'd like to correct people in the pronunciation 'Fusil de Chasse'. Fusil is phonetically pronounced as 2 syllables, as in 'fusee', but Chasse is only pronouced as 1 syllable as 'chas', and not a long 'a' either. That use is when it is used as a noun for the word hunt, i.e., FdC = Gun of the Hunt. When one would use the word hunt as a verb as in hunting, then yes it would be pronounced as 2 syllables, as in 'chass-say'.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Howdy!
I just got my fusil de chasse from The Muzzleloader Shop.
Originally contacted Loyalist Arms but Linda Higgins, of the same company, referred me to The Muzzleloader Shop, as they are behind schedule.

The Muzzleloader Shop was great to deal with. Marty was the person I dealt with and he was really helpful.
A few photos attached.

Would appreciate some advice to see if I am correct and as to how to proceed.
I ordered some 600 balls and will try it out some time next week hopefully.

I am thinking it could use some wood removal (photos attached). I don't mind this at all, and it will give me an opportunity to personalize this fusil a bit.
The "flats" on the barrel, before the wedding ring, don't seem as flat as what I see in photos. Would filing these down a bit, in the exposed area, be OK?
Also thinking if there's a way to add a serpent sideplate, maybe some beaded decoration?

So far, my persona is leaning towards a Spaniard or French man living with one of the tribes up around Canada during the French and Indian War or just before. Maybe the Abenaki or something. Prefer Spanish as that is my ancestry, and I will NOT eat escargot!!! Plus I speak fluent Spanish and failed French in high school.

So anyway, any advice on the wood removal and other improvements would be appreciated.

Well the wood tends to be pretty hard. I'd just use it and have a good time

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Call it what you want. But I will not give out anymore information. I am not making a dime sharing what I read or see. So I’ll stop. If you want to learn about the Fusil de Chasse, hunt down the expensive boots.

It’s not about function, it’s about it not being what it’s advertised as being. It’s a gun, it’s not an FDC.

Thank you Clark, we get that you don't like it.

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I bought this gun used several years ago and killed a bunch of squirrels with it before someone on the internet said I couldn’t.

View attachment 391257

Funny I have a "trade gun" from probably a similar origin, and folks tried to tell me the same thing... OH and the ONLY thing that I needed to do in my opinion was to paint the stock. Never had a sparking issue or any other "failures". Actually NONE of my India Origin smooth bores have had problems.

LD

 

[David LaPell]

Funny I have a "trade gun" from probably a similar origin, and folks tried to tell me the same thing... OH and the ONLY thing that I needed to do in my opinion was to paint the stock. Never had a sparking issue or any other "failures". Actually NONE of my India Origin smooth bores have had problems.

View attachment 391357

I have a couple of Indian made guns and their lock times are just as good as any of my Pedersoli made muzzleloaders. This is my Indian made Bess, 1748 Artillery carbine. This is 70 grains of FFG Scheutzen with the same FFG powder used to prime the pan.

 

[oreclan]

I appreciate everyone's input, suggestions, and even telling me to make sure it shoots well, that it needs a good deal of work, etc.
I do not appreciate your snarky comment and arrogant attitude.
I was looking up posts by others and there you are, all over the place, putting things down and being a "Negative Nancy".

You seem to have a good deal of knowledge about these firearms, so how about using that knowledge, along with a little bit of common tact and grace, to help people improve them instead of knocking them?

I bought a Jim Chambers Mark Silver rifle kit in 2006 that I have not been able to finish due to life just getting in the way. I am at the tail end of a divorce which has made it even more difficult now with most everything needing to go into storage while I live in my tiny Casita camper.

I do not have $2000+ to drop on a perfect replica right now, and I don't have the tools and setup to work on a good kit, but I can do some basic improvements on this gun. This replica will serve as a stopgap to at least help me finally get into muzzle-loading, historical trekking and God willing I can finish that Mark Silver Rifle when I get back on my feet. I can then get a more accurate FDC and use this as a loaner or whatever for a friend who may be interested.

That being said, again: I welcome suggestions to make it more acceptable. Once I am sure it shoots well, I can move forward with improving it.

Years ago I bought an Indian made Cookson doglock fusil from Middlesex Village trading company . It has a 51 inch. 69 caliber barrel. I liked the French influenced style including the "Roman nose" butt stock, but it was stocked in heavy teak. I shaved it down removing at least a quarter inch of wood by the trigger guard and refined the clam shell carving around the barrel tang. I then sanded it and finished it with commercial maple stain.
It turned out great.
So don't be discouraged by nay sayers ! Study originals. Remove as much wood as you can, refinish it and enjoy it.
Oh by the way, were it mine I wouldn't put a serpent side plate on it

 

[Crow Creek]

Howdy!
I just got my fusil de chasse from The Muzzleloader Shop.
Originally contacted Loyalist Arms but Linda Higgins, of the same company, referred me to The Muzzleloader Shop, as they are behind schedule.

The Muzzleloader Shop was great to deal with. Marty was the person I dealt with and he was really helpful.
A few photos attached.

Would appreciate some advice to see if I am correct and as to how to proceed.
I ordered some 600 balls and will try it out some time next week hopefully.

I am thinking it could use some wood removal (photos attached). I don't mind this at all, and it will give me an opportunity to personalize this fusil a bit.
The "flats" on the barrel, before the wedding ring, don't seem as flat as what I see in photos. Would filing these down a bit, in the exposed area, be OK?
Also thinking if there's a way to add a serpent sideplate, maybe some beaded decoration?

So far, my persona is leaning towards a Spaniard or French man living with one of the tribes up around Canada during the French and Indian War or just before. Maybe the Abenaki or something. Prefer Spanish as that is my ancestry, and I will NOT eat escargot!!! Plus I speak fluent Spanish and failed French in high school.

So anyway, any advice on the wood removal and other improvements would be appreciated.

Enjoy the experience, it’s yours and build as you wish! Research and get it as close as you can to original. Lots of
good info and photos out there. I am not familiar with the wood they used but take your time and advise from those that are. Mistakes might be made then you will learn how to correct them, just part of the journey. Best of luck!

 

[pipascus]

What you like is what you like. So it’s up to you
The originals were iron mounted ant that iron left bright. It would get a dull gray and in living conditions could naturally brown
Blackened brass always
looked cheap to me. And brass mounted guns were made at the time
Personally I would keep the brass brass.
And no it won’t scare game away.
The brown stock looks real good with brass
I think

Good point.
Thanks.
Maybe just let the brass get a patina.

 

[pipascus]

Disagree tengun, an elitist doesn’t waste time on inefficient projects as learning tools.

If you want to learn how to build guns, buy a kit, the cost difference between an Indian made gun and a factory kit (beginners kit) is maybe 500-600 depending on the manufacturer.

You still need tools, time and the understanding that you need to accept your failures and learn from them.

Buying an Indian gun just to disassemble it, rework it it’s futile because there is no amount of filing, scrapping, or buffing that will make it what it is intended to be.

Now if you fell in love with an Indian made musket, and you appreciate it as it is and want to shoot it…. By all means, go for it.

But the concept of buying Indian because its cheaper and you’re willing to work on it because its cheap is just someone saying… well i dont’ want to F&ck up a higher quality kit and get laughed at.

my answer to that is find some courage to learn and take your mistakes in stride. There is no gun builder on this form that has not made a mistake they didn’t learn from.

Where is Mike Brooks ! @comfortablynumb

I am at the tail end of a divorce from a vampire who stole ten years of my life. I will be living in a 17' Casita trailer for who knows how long, since I chose to keep my faith instead of doing a Mel Gibson in The Patriot move.

I have a Jim Chambers kit that I worked on in a box since 2006. It's sitting in storage right now. Life has just gotten in the way over and over. I can't believe it myself, but that's what it is. I have no problem with working on it, just don't have the ability in that camper.

The Indian gun will at least let me shoot. I figure I can make it look better, maybe even cut it down to a "canoe gun" or something later on.
Being in the camper, working on the Jim Chambers would subject it to a lot of abuse I think. The Indian gun I can mess with at least.

 

[brushblind]

No one is saying something needs to be so expensive you need to, "mortgage your house for it." Something isn't correct because it isn't correct. Period. The shapes aren't right, the parts aren't right, the materials aren't right, the proportions aren't right, any or all of these things can be the reason a gun isn't historically correct. (I'm not just speaking if this gun in particular, but historically inaccurate guns in general) Some are better or worse than others....
And, there are many expensive guns out there that aren't historically correct. Many of them are very, very, nice guns, but that doesn't mean they are an accurate representation of a gun from a given historical period.
Cost isn't the issue that makes something historically accurate/correct or not, although generally speaking the more historically correct the gun, or knife, is, the more it will cost because of all the extra work that goes into it.

Like the Corvair and the Corvette, I would be that guy to show up at a Corvette rally with a Corvair, just for the fun. lol

 

[Brokennock]

Good point.
Thanks.
Maybe just let the brass get a patina.

If you go do some shooting with real black powder, clean with water, and wipe the dirty damp patches on the brass they will tarnish and darken quickly.

 

[pipascus]

I would listen to Clark, he works directly with some of the most knowledgeable gunsmiths on tulle guns.

I would honestly spend some time to research tulle guns, French trade guns etc. request to exhibit some originals your perceptions willl change of what an appropriate tulle gun is.

That's the thing: I would gladly listen to Clark.
He said it is not and will never be a TFDC.
Several times.
Got it.
When I can, I would very much like to get a TFDC that is accurate.
Now that he gave his obviously well educated input, it should be enough to say "Moving on, if you want that gun to look presentable as some kind of fowler, here's what you can do..."

I asked him several times to please contribute regarding how to make the gun look better-not making it a TFDC, but to at least make it look better. He could also contribute knowledge on what kit or manufacturer is better, what to look for, what to avoid.

But Clark seems obsessed with repeating "It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse-It's not a Fusil de Chasse..."
Regardless of how many times he is acknowledged.

Clark could make a modicum of effort in at least acknowledging people wanting to shoot and improving their guns. If these were people doing a documentary and claiming historical accuracy, or presenting themselves at events as historical representatives of the time... then yes, by all means, correct all the way.
But for goodness sake, he can't tell people "Here's what to do to make that look presentable until you can afford one that is accurate." ???
How about pictures to help compare, make his point while also helping a bit?

This gun I have may never pass as a TFDC, but it's what I have for now. I have seen others with the same gun that has been worked to look pretty good. Isn't that worth anything? Isn't it better for someone to come in with one of these, work it a little bit, and then get a better gun, and maybe even use the older gun as a loaner to help someone else get into muzzleloading? Or is spending $2000 the only price of entry?


And Clark, if you are reading this, I STILL would very much appreciate your input on where to find a good TFDC kit.

 

[pipascus]

Ethan and the guys at the 11BangBang channel do ALOT of work with the Indian made guns including redoing them to make them look more correct. Here's his Fusil de Chasse, and he's really good at getting back to people if they have questions. I've had several conversations with him myself on doing some work on a couple of my guns. Ethan is probably the best guy to ask about these because he shoots the snot out of every one of them.

Great info! Thanks! Will certainly contact him!

 

[pipascus]

Your best bet honestly, try to look at original guns in museums, online places etc. I've actually gone to a couple of museums just to look at guns, and in 2023 I took a class put on by the curator of Fort Ticonderoga where I was able to examine and handle original Brown Bess muskets.

Speaking of Fort Ticonderoga, you can go online and view their collection of artifacts because they have spent a great time in digitizing everything. I went online and found two French made fusils (they have more) in their collection. Each have detailed photos and close ups to get an idea. Both of these French made fusils were made at about the same time, in the 1740's-1750's. If you look, you can see how much they differ even though they were both French made. The point is, unlike military guns, there isn't one "exact" pattern when it came to guns of that time during the fur trade, especially among the French. Before you go changing anything or hear that "It was done this way" you have to realize things were made to a standard but there was a lot of variety even in one country's trade guns.

View attachment 391329

View attachment 391330

Very interesting indeed! I will look at that for sure!
Lots of variation between those two guns. Just from looking at them in passing I see a big difference in the trigger guards, butstock shape, lock, nose cap...
Thank you!

 

[Banjoman]

Man! All this talk about worthless, no account, incorrect, inaccurate, ugly India made flintlock smooth bores has flung a powerful craving on me to go shoot mine!

 

[pipascus]

That's an indication that the half cock notch in the tumbler is worn. That is a safety issue that can keep a reenactor off the field if the gun can't hold the half cock while suspended on the trigger. The tumbler is probably too soft to support the half cock function. The half cock notch should be recut and the tumbler properly hardened and tempered.

Good to know. I will let the seller know. Or maybe better to replace the lock from Track of the Wolf?

 

[pipascus]

Years ago I bought an Indian made Cookson doglock fusil from Middlesex Village trading company . It has a 51 inch. 69 caliber barrel. I liked the French influenced style including the "Roman nose" butt stock, but it was stocked in heavy teak. I shaved it down removing at least a quarter inch of wood by the trigger guard and refined the clam shell carving around the barrel tang. I then sanded it and finished it with commercial maple stain.
It turned out great.
So don't be discouraged by nay sayers ! Study originals. Remove as much wood as you can, refinish it and enjoy it.
Oh by the way, were it mine I wouldn't put a serpent side plate on it

Good to know.
My only issue now is discovering it can drop the hammer in half cock if the trigger is pulled. Need to sort that out.