Future of the sport...?

Woody,.... I must say, thet I prefer the "definition" in my American Heritage Dictionary, better !!

This also makes me wonder how many arguements take place because of different "defintions" from different dictionarys???????

(I'm gonna look up "muzzleloader" when I'm done eat'n!! :haha

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Ohio Joe]

My American Century Dictionary says; best, or select group, or class...

I take this to mean for example, the; Masons, Marines, Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard, Buckskinners, Gun Builders, Teachers, Doctors, Brick Layers, Piano Players, High Power Bench Shooters, NSSA Members, NRA Members, NMLRA Members, the list goes on and on... We are all part of some elite group whether you know it or not...

There's nothing wrong with belonging and doing your best to become the best at what you do... As I said, there are no high or low marks, only what you make of what you do...

If you want to staddle the fence, then straddle the fence. Don't turn your nose down at those who chose to, and choose now to be, part of elite group's that formed and fought for our country, and those who teach us, and heal us, and those who take the time to try and provide something that is unique that all can enjoy if they so desire. Just because it might be traditional doesn't make it bad...

 

Woody,.... Well I'm back, and my dictionary ain't got the word "muzzleloader" in it, I did found out tho,.... thet "flintlocks" are obsolete,.... and my rifleguns ain't "inlines"!! :hmm:

YMHS
rollingb

 

rollingb

muzzleloader

Muzzle-loader \Muz"zle-load`er\, n. A firearm which receives its charge through the muzzle, as distinguished from one which is loaded at the breech.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary,

 

[Brokenlaig]

I'll hop in here......
I don't know if there is a real disagreement here or not, but I consider most inline shooters to be, well, guys who are more interested in hunting than anything else. They aren't necessarily interested in history, tradition, or the heritage the traditional muzzleloader brings with it. He is, first and foremost, about "gettin him a deer". I think it rubs some traditional folks the wrong way when Joe Six-pack buys him a inline at wal-mart and is ready to go hunting with little or no practice, load development, or the other fooforaw that we traditionalists love so much. Pyrodex pellets, plastic sabots, jacketed bullets, synthetic stocks and scopes......well, it looks like, feels like and really smells like.....cheating. And that, friends, PISSES US OFF. Some few inline fellas make the jump though- I was witness to a fella trying to sell his inline so as to buy a sidelock, cause he was joining a muzzleloading club. They don't allow inlines! So....he's for sellin' it!
My last range outing I watched a fella trying to sight in his inline-with dismal results. A six inch group at 50 yards...with a scope! I planted three in about two inches at the same distance with a beat up lyman GPR (That later turned out to have a ringed barrel, dang it!) He tried a few through the GPR and decided that maybe there was something to the sidelock...So they can be reclaimed!
Here's my point...You were wondering if I had one, right?
If Inlines bring just 1% of users into the traditional fold, learning and passing on our history and tradition and the very soul of what muzzleloading (and, by extension, buckskinning and re-enacting) is about, then it's worth it to put up with them.
Brokenlaig
Who fired one shot from a inline, then gave it back with the comment "That SOB just don't feel right". :m2c:

 

[jaybeach]

WHEW! I just read this entire thread for the first time at one sitting. Here's my :m2c::
1. Way to go Woody for your display of mentorship to a young man. It could have been a fishing rod or a dirt bike you gave him - the principle is the same.
2. The thought occurred to me that I remember my grandfather telling about when he was a boy using BP in his shotgun, and showed up some "city slickers" from Chicago shooting clays. They had to stand off to the side to see if he hit them, but he said, "After I shot, they didn't go out to pick 'em up and throw 'em again." :haha: But - on to my point: he also said he was glad when he was able to afford shotshells loaded with smokeless powder (for all the usual reasons). But - my Dad NEVER shot a BP gun, though he hunted all his life - and now here I am with two of them, and thinking seriously about a third. It seems that sometimes these kind of things skip a generation, then come back again.
3. I don't believe any of us have to worry about the future of the sport. As long as there are poeople who love to shoot (and as long as the law allows - which is probably the greater concern) people will use all kinds of weapons; some for the convenience, some for the raw power, and some for the love of tradition, style and beauty of design.

 

Thanks jaybe

Woody

 

Well, it's a "give'n" thet we need "new blood" to keep traditional muzzleloading alive and well. I'm wonder'n if inlines are more compatable with youngsters, then maybe sumpthin like Lyman's Trade rifle, Tradition's Hawken, and etc.??

I'm not "up" on all the mass produced sidelocks thet are be'n made today. Here is anuther concern I have,.....

If ther ain't any traditional sidelocks available thet kids can shoot comfortably,.... will they be turn'n to inlines?????

YMHS
rollingb

 

[Stumpkiller]

My primary interest is hunting and I prefer traditional equipment.

But, I also hunt where traditional is no big disadvantage really. A little damp at times, but that can be handled. Most shots are within 40 yards, and I can count on one hand the times I double-tapped on a deer with a repeating breechloader.

Set me down in a mule deer region where there is no close cover or natural funnels and I'd be paralized. I assume these critters have a weakness as I see bowhunters take them. My point is that I don't know what hunting situations other hunters might face, so I don't begrudge an in-line shooter a rifle that gets him out hunting where a 100 yard gun might not be enough.

But a primative weapon an in-line ain't. I'm seeing many in the hands of hunters hereabouts where they are an alternative to slug-firing shotguns during the regular season, and I think that is just grand.

I'd rather see them with patched roundballs and iron sights during the muzzleloading season, but I don't write the laws. NY needed to do something to encourage hunters, as our numbers have been declining. If in-lines help, good.

I know better than to think I'll ever see ads in the magazines that say "We've slowed down our lock time 25%!" or "Loose 50 yards off your effective range with our projectile!" or "Our primers fail when wet!"

You have to be called to rise to that challenge and develop the discipline to use primative muzzleloaders. They are certainly becoming harder to find, and I find that trend alarming. It will be a shame if the only way to get a decent flintlock is through the custom route or by building your own.

 

[jaybeach]

Oh - I had a # 4 to put on my last post but it slipped my - - er - mind:
4. Did you ever notice how the more things change, the more they stay the same? Like station wagons - remember when they were the "family car" in the USA? Then along comes the mini-van (more room, less mileage)- then the SUV (less room, less mileage)- and now, I keep seeing these things that look for all the world like station wagons again! :hmm: There is no question in my mind that there will always be people who appreciate the style of traditional firearms, and even the "ritual" that goes along with shooting them. What I think is most important is that we of the shooting persuasion do what we can to ensure the support of the 2nd Amendment as we know it.

IM jaybe :thumbsup:

 

[TexiKan]

Maybe we've had other terms for those who have evolved to the next level. I have no problem with their direction and can appreciate their dedication. However, in many cases, it's the way they respond--often in a condescending tone. The black powder hobby is not qualified by a very narrow scope. We choose different perspectives and interests within it. But when a "Stitch Natzi" tells me, in an authoritarian tone, that I ain't "correct"....well, it doesn't particularly inspire me to adjust because he says so! Teach.......don't preach !

I have had issues with fellow club members who tend to bark at new or visiting members because their shooting procedures do not conform to the accepted norm. The new individuals are just that.......new to the hobby....and they would like to learn and enjoy the sport. But it sure is discouraging to have someone be overly critical with a demeaning tone. It doesn't particularly encourage one to return. There's the "future" and he no longer feels welcome unless he has all the acceptable, correct equipment and is completely versed on our particular practices.

As I understand it, nearly all of us evolved through various levels and in many cases, are continuing to evolve in the hobby. Respect, tolerance and patience. I have always appreciated those attributes and if they are universally exhibited, the hobby will have less obstacles to overcome.

TexiKan
--------------

If you continue to do what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got.

 

Very well said!! :applause: :redthumb:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[PaulN/KS]

Ya nailed it Chris. :thumbsup:

 

[76monza]

Don't get me wrong guys, I just have not been keen on labeling myself with a title of any kind. I honestly just don't see a need for it. I understand to others it's very important to them, and I'm cool with that.
In some circles my guns, camp and I wouldn't pass muster as "traditional", and in some I fit right in, and thats okay with me. I do what I can to make everything appear "period" as possible. At this point in my life I'm content with my level of correctness with my gear. As I alluded to earlier, the one thing I can count on is that I will change and progress with time. Who knows maybe someday I'll own one of them old fashioned flintlocks, but not today. AND THATS what is really cool about this hobby. I can move in any direction with blackpowder that I choose when I choose and I don't have to settle down into only one style. So please don't think ill of me for carrying a factory gun or inline today, because tomorrow I might be carrying a flintlock!

Smokeydays

 

[76monza]

Okay Texican,

You nailed it dead on in the X-ring Texican!

Smokeydays

 

Don't get me wrong guys, I just have not been keen on labeling myself with a title of any kind.

I don't care "what" I'm called either,... as long as "traditionalist" is part of the label!! :haha: :haha: :thumbsup:

YMHS
rollingb

 

[TANSTAAFL]

As to the pros and cons the direction this thread has taken, I can only say, just damn.

I used to frequent another (to remain un-named) ML forum, until the acrimony on this very trad/inline debate turned me off to such a point, that I left and haven't gone back since.

First, we have to define the problem, and the problem is, we are one and all, prejudiced. Oh, we can say we are not, but, would we be human if otherwise?

Second, we have to agree to disagree, yet remain civil, and I for one, will not discuss this subject further.

 

I certainly have no "problem" agree'n to disagree.

I think some of you are "read'n" sumpthin into these posts thet I simply don't see.

I'd say this topic has a bit more to do with traditional muzzleloaders then with inlines, because it's the traditional muzzleloaders thet are in "DECLINE",.... not inlines!!.

I gotta say, it's begin'n to feel as tho a "traditional" fella has to walk on "egg shells" in some of these forums so as to not accidently hurt any "feel'ns".
Believe me if "hurt'n inliner's feel'ns" was my intent ther'd difinitly be "no doubt about it"!!

No one has said you shouldn't buy an inline if thet's what you want, no one has said thet inlines are ugly, no one has said inlines shouldn't be allowed in the hunt'n fields, no one has said manufactures otta quit make'n inlines,..... so "wher'n the heck" are all the hurt feel'ns come'n from??????????? (or, do some folks like to cry "foul" over nuthin???)

In fact, no one has said anythin aginst inlines at all, except thet they weren't allowed to compete with traditional muzzleloaders at traditional shoots,.... so, what gives??.. I'd really like to know!!

rollingb (crunch, crunch, crunch)

 

[Huntinfool]

Dang it quit stompin' on all them egg shells will ya I can't sleep!

And oh and by the way I'd like to be know as an elitest like the fighting Green Berets, Navy Seals, and the Air Bornes Rangers were! Rogers Rangers now they were an elite fighting force!!!

Chuck! :crackup: :youcrazy:

 

I'm sorry Huntinfool,.... I've really tried to "watch" wher I step, but even walk'n sloooow don't seem to help much!!

YMHS
rollingb (cruuuunnnnccchhh!)