Genuine query here.

[TFoley]

OK, 'fess up, how many of you have actually SEEN a modern BP reolver that has blown up when shooting a regular load of correct BP?

Over here in UK there is a thread on a well-regarded forum about such an event - the top-strap has been 'blown out' and a chamber has lost its side.

No other details are forthcoming as the gun has been 'arrested' by the police [nobody has the faintest notion why].

Personally, in over 45 years of shooting BP of all kinds, I have never seen such a thing. In our local gun store there is a display Model 1858 Army that was used to demonstrate what happens if you load it with nitro - but that was intentionally done to act as a deterrent.

Remember, too, that here in UK ALL BP arms have to be proofed before sale, regardless of the country of origin and proof. That means every chamber of every revolver.

Your views are sought.

tac

 

[CZMark]

I'm no expert, but from the damage you describe, I would suspect there was smokeless powder in the cylinder.

 

[MikeChapin]

I have only heard of it happening in a revolver when someone was using smokeless powder.

 

[poordevil]

Never

P :2

 

[renovato]

I've never seen any black powder gun blow up using the proper powder.

Let's assume for a moment that the gun you mentioned had a flaw in the metal of the chamber. That still wouldn't blow out the rather substantial top strap. I strongly suspect someone loaded smokeless powder and didn't realize it. Black powder just doesn't have that much power.

I do gun shows for a living and I run into all sorts. I was talking to a guy at a show once, about my love of black powder guns. He said he'd never own one because they blow up too easily. He said his brother had blown up 3 already! I can only assume that this guy thinks any powder that is black is black powder.

 

[TFoley]

To CZMark and all - I'm thinking that there is something fishy about this - the police do not usually get involved in cases of damaged firearms - I'm beginning to think that there is some element of criminality here that we are not privy to.

Remember, too, that EVERY BP handgun sold here in UK has to pass UK proof - in every chamber of every revolver, before it can be sold. Unless. of course, there was a fault that 'suddenly' developed. I've never seen or heard of such a thing, either.

I'll keep you all posted, just for interest, if that's OK with you guys.

Best

tac

 

[CZMark]

I'll keep you all posted, just for interest, if that's OK with you guys.

Please do.

And yes, the police involvement is curious.

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Have been shooting many different black powder revolvers since the early 1970's and have attended lots of gun shows.

In all that time have never verified a modern black powder revolver that was blown up with real black powder. Have seen a few cylinders that were blown up; the stories involved stupid acts by careless people or there was no story.

Back then I decided not to fire the various low quality or "cheap" revolvers as I simply did not trust them.

 

[Coot]

A commonly held opinion regarding black powder revolvers is that due to the limited chamber size, you cannot load a bursting charge & still seat the ball. I have never heard of, much less seen, one that burst using real black powder. If one is loaded with modern smokeless powder & only designed for the lower pressure of black powder, it is quite possible. Perhaps the police suspect that someone purposefully substituted smokeless in the shooters flask or can in an attempt to do them harm while appearing to be an accident???

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I have never heard of a C&B revolver bursting when loaded properly. It seems most likely that smokeless powder was used in this instance. Some people think that as long as the powder is black in color it is safe to use, not realising that some smokeles powder is also black. Very hard on the revolver and not good for the fingers either.

 

[bingo1952]

I would suspect nitro powder. In my almost 40 years of shooting I have personally seen one gun pop and it was not a revolver but an original P53 Enfield. The best guess is that when the minie bullet was seated it came part way back up the bore when the rammer was withdrawn. It was suspected that it either stuck to the end either from a burr or too much lube forming a vacuum between to rammer end and the bullet nose.

 

[Homesteader]

Started shooting smokewagons in '75. Never seen it happen.

 

[Zonie]

I've never seen a black powder revolver "blow up" nor one that did.

I've seen modern revolvers after they blew up, usually caused by a barrel obstruction or by using reloads which were overloaded with the wrong powder (Bullseye).

Testing for nitro based powder residue is a fairly easy test for the Police and I'm sure if it was present on the damaged gun they would know.
I'm not sure they would tell the world about their findings though and that's a shame.

As easy as it is for the rumor mill to start spreading false assumptions, it would be good to get the truth out to the public.
If it turns out that this was indeed a failure of the gun with a black powder charge folks need to know. Especially those who persist in loading as much powder as is possible under heavy bullets.

On the other hand, if it was indeed caused by smokeless powder that too should be known so there is no uncalled for over reaction to the event with the typical "Those Black Powder guns are dangerous!" reaction from the general public.

 

[TFoley]

Dear Mr Zonie and all - update here - the revolver is presently being examined by the UK's Health and Safety Executive Forensic Branch - part of the H&S organisation that looks at possibilites of eventual litigation with regard to manufacturing and/or use of anything that comes to their attention, as this handgun plainly has. This means that we are prolly looking at some kind of court case pending - with regard to what issue, I'm afraid that right now I don't know.

However, I'm not far from the action, so I'll post here when I get something positive to tell you all.

tac

 

[Golfswithwolves]

If the revolver was loaded with too small a volume of black powder (leaving an air space between the powder and ball) then the ball would act as an obstuction and may have raised the presseure in the chamber significantly.

 

[TFoley]

If the revolver was loaded with too small a volume of black powder (leaving an air space between the powder and ball) then the ball would act as an obstuction and may have raised the presseure in the chamber significantly.

Yessir, I understand that, having seen the results of 'short-loading' a Brown Bess many years ago at a display of BP shooting throughout the ages...I can tell you that the shooter of THAT poor gun aged ten years right in front of us.

I was also standing about ten feet away from a .357Mag revolver when THAT let go from so-called surface detonation due to a very small charge of Bullseye lying horizontal in a comparatively large capacity 'hole'.

We await the results of this with interest.

tac

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Don't know what is referred to as a modern revolver. Frankly, I remember seeing repros for shooting back in the mid 1960's, is that modern. Some of those early cap and ball revolvers were barely in time. Brass fram revolvers shoot loose and get out of time after a series of heavy charges.

Quality control is not as good some times, sometimes the steel isn't what it should be. Was it a "non-firing" replica that some idiot thought he could fire.

I have seen three black powder revolvers that blew pieces off the cylinder from chain firing. One was a walker repro of suspect origin. People do really stupid things with firearms. If the steel was flawed, did it develop a crack and then blow. Did somebody drop it causing a defect? Did some jerk use it to hammer nails? load with smokeless, double load balls? Cram a copper jacketed bullet into the chamber? People do stupid things with guns sometimes. Of course once their is an injury, suddenly the instructions and manual were followed to the T.

I heard of a guy that tried to increase the power of his cap and ball revolver by cutting the chambers a little larger near the base of the chambers. He figured if he could get an extra 5 to 10 grains of powder in each chamber. I figure the fella must have hated his face & hands to risk that kind of injury.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have never seen a modern black Powder handgun, made with a top strap, " BLOW UP", when it was properly loaded with real Black Powder. However, there are morons out there( I met one) who have destroyed guns loading some Smokeless Powders like Bullseye, in the gun,

"--- Because the powder is black in color, isn't it?? How was I to know??"

The Guy I am quoting, almost verbatim, was bragging how he had blown up not one, but THREE modern revolvers using the wrong powder!

( Someone defined "stupid" as doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result! I think this allows me to refer to the guy I am recalling as a " MORON"!)

Now, if this was a very old, early 19th century revolver, in poor condition, made from iron, I can see there being a problem. However, Top-straps show up in the 1858 Remington .44, and later in the Colt 1873 Peacemaker. You see a closed frame appear in the Early Smith and Wesson revolvers for rimmed cartridges(1857), and some of the lesser known revolver brands made during the American Civil War. But mostly, closed frames( Ie. with a top strap) came in with cartridge guns, and not much earlier. Remington's big .44 was the exception, and made it a sought after revolver on both sides of the battlefield.

 

[TFoley]

Seems we were ALL right in our assumption that this half-wit had used the 'wrong black-coloured' stuff. Here is the hot poop from a poster on the other forum, received not ten minutes syne.......


'More information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It now transpires that the shooter that this issue refers to was new to black powder. Instead of reading the menu before starting to cook he jumped in with both feet and loaded with Accurate No.5 for God's sake. A double based smokeless powder.

Apparently, somewhere on the label it said "universal" so he thought it was all right to use it.

My only question would be "How did he get away so lightly?"

More information will follow as I get it.
__________________
Meddle ye not in the affairs of dragons,
for thou art crunchy and delicious with ketchup.'

Incredibly, he was not injured by the explosion - for such it was.

The gun was brand-spanking new out of the box, too, and this was the very first shot fired.

Last one as well.....

I'll see if I can get a pic some time to show you, but I already have one of a blown up Pietta if there is somebody I can send it to? I can't post images from this PC except by email.

Best to all, and I'm glad we cleared this one up.

tac in yUK

tac

 

[CZMark]

Thanks for the update.