Getting the Walker tuned up

[M. De Land]

Well I'm in business, I found a size/lube die I made for some other project that takes the bullet base and front band down to .448 and I can push them in the cylinder mouth by hand enough to clear the loading port before they snug up in the chamber past the mouth about 2/3rds there length as in the picture.
Now if they will seal against front end chain fire and not back out from recoil I think It'll be a good match for the gun. The bullet weighs 202 grains dry so should be around 205 grains with the grease groove full.
I do have felt grease wads that will work to help seal things up if the bullet diameter is not tight enough.
I'll be quite surprised if this bullet does not perform well .

While I was building my Uberti Highwall match rifle I inquired of the dealer what the steel alloy was in anticipation of color casing it after the factory finish wore off. He told be Uberti used 8620 equivalent alloy for their cartridge receivers which has very similar tensile, elongation and shock load numbers compared to our 4140 chrome moly alloy but was compatible with charcoal casing.
I didn't ask about the cartridge revolver receivers but would be very surprised if they did not use the same in them as they are certified for smokeless cartridge use. The percussion guns I have no clue about so will be on my own with this bullet heavily loaded with black powder.I'm thinking it will be fine though especially since the bullet is under size to the groove diameter.

 

[Gun Tramp]

In his testing the balls out shot the picket bullet, mostly I think because the Picketts were so hard to keep straight at loading.

Rifling rate of twist may be a factor.

 

[M. De Land]

Rifling rate of twist may be a factor.

I've not measured the left hand twist in the Walker but you've made me curious now. I think I'll make another cerosafe slug cast and see if I can get it to traverse the bore and measure the pitch with a cleaning rod.
I would think this the perfect hand gun for those who which to hunt hogs and deer with percussion revolvers ,especially from a stand.
Boy if that slug will go 1100 fps with BP loads and is accurate it should be an excellent hunting load ! I've read the Walker was used for killing grizzly bears in California in it's hay day but not sure if that was with ball or bullet.
Does anyone know how many Walkers were actually made past the original 1100 for the Texas Rangers and civilian use ?

 

[Pete453]

Does anyone know how many Walkers were actually made past the original 1100 for the Texas Rangers and civilian use

Seems to me, I've read 1100 total. I'm sure we'll never know the exact number at this point

 

[Dude]

Seems to me, I've read 1100 total. I'm sure we'll never know the exact number at this point

Sam didn't have the record-keeping part of the business all organized at that point. It must have been a hectic time. There wasn't even a record of which revolvers Sam Walker got - or when.

 

[M. De Land]

Sam didn't have the record-keeping part of the business all organized at that point. It must have been a hectic time. There wasn't even a record of which revolvers Sam Walker got - or when.

Didn't they have a fire at one time that destroyed the records or was that some other gun company?

 

[M. De Land]

I've not measured the left hand twist in the Walker but you've made me curious now. I think I'll make another cerosafe slug cast and see if I can get it to traverse the bore and measure the pitch with a cleaning rod.
I would think this the perfect hand gun for those who which to hunt hogs and deer with percussion revolvers ,especially from a stand.
Boy if that slug will go 1100 fps with BP loads and is accurate it should be an excellent hunting load ! I've read the Walker was used for killing grizzly bears in California in it's hay day but not sure if that was with ball or bullet.
Does anyone know how many Walkers were actually made past the original 1100 for the Texas Rangers and civilian use ?

I made a cerosafe cast tonight to accurately measure the bore pitch and it is 1 in 19 on the nose, left hand.
I also lubed and sized 40 of the ACP bullets I was planning on testing and have it ready for the range first chance I get.
I also tested the Brinnell hardness numbers on the bullets and I know they are wheel weights but I must have water dropped them because they measure 14 BHN . That's three times the hardness of pure lead so I am going to rethink this a bit . I think it might be a good idea to anneal the bullets before I try them. I'll start with about 35 grains of 3F and watch to see if the hammer blows back to half cock with a full power main spring.
With the chamber mouths running a very consistent .449 I think my Hornady swaged balls at .451 ought to do the trick.
The oak loading rack sure makes life easy at the range !

 

[45D]

I made a cerosafe cast tonight to accurately measure the bore pitch and it is 1 in 19 on the nose, left hand.
I also lubed and sized 40 of the ACP bullets I was planning on testing and have it ready for the range first chance I get.
I also tested the Brinnell hardness numbers on the bullets and I know they are wheel weights but I must have water dropped them because they measure 14 BHN . That's three times the hardness of pure lead so I am going to rethink this a bit . I think it might be a good idea to anneal the bullets before I try them. I'll start with about 35 grains of 3F and watch to see if the hammer blows back to half cock with a full power main spring.
With the chamber mouths running a very consistent .449 I think my Hornady swaged balls at .451 ought to do the trick.
The oak loading rack sure makes life easy at the range !

I wouldn't worry about the hardness unless it's for loading. I shoot jacketed ammo with absolutely no problem.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

I wouldn't worry about the hardness unless it's for loading. I shoot jacketed ammo with absolutely no problem.

Mike

OK, thanks for the help Mike. I believe they will load fine after the sizing/lubing to .448.

 

[M. De Land]

I made a cerosafe cast tonight to accurately measure the bore pitch and it is 1 in 19 on the nose, left hand.
I also lubed and sized 40 of the ACP bullets I was planning on testing and have it ready for the range first chance I get.
I also tested the Brinnell hardness numbers on the bullets and I know they are wheel weights but I must have water dropped them because they measure 14 BHN . That's three times the hardness of pure lead so I am going to rethink this a bit . I think it might be a good idea to anneal the bullets before I try them. I'll start with about 35 grains of 3F and watch to see if the hammer blows back to half cock with a full power main spring.
With the chamber mouths running a very consistent .449 I think my Hornady swaged balls at .451 ought to do the trick.
The oak loading rack sure makes life easy at the range !

I finally got around to checking the chamber diameter below the mouth which is .449 and it went all the way down to a .440 plug gauge before it would drop to bottom. I may still have a challenge getting these ACP bullets to seat!
Guess I'll try loading one or two up here at the house and firing into a bullet trap. It'll take a half day to get the smoke out of the shop and all my visitors will think I farted ! Not that that would bother me much !
With every thing happening here lately I'm work'en harder than a cat trying to bury a turd on a marble floor.

 

[nkbj]

I wonder wither balls or bullets were the most used in Walkers in Texas ranger hands. I have read the Walkers came with a mold as issued so what ever the mold cast would probably provide a pretty good answer.
The testing should be done with both I suppose but would think the bullet used in them would be the better test of wedge strength.
Could be a double cavity mold I suppose casting both balls and bullets. Any one seen an original mold issued with the Walkers?

The Walker lends itself to various designs. These are the RCBS #45-225-CAV with the tail rings sized to slip into the chambers like a miniature maxi.

 

[M. De Land]

View attachment 249872

The Walker lends itself to various designs. These are the RCBS #45-225-CAV with the tail rings sized to slip into the chambers like a miniature maxi.

 

[M. De Land]

Are they easy to get seated square ?

 

[SDSmlf]

Guess I'll try loading one or two up here at the house and firing into a bullet trap. It'll take a half day to get the smoke out of the shop and all my visitors will think I farted !

Have you considered loading all six chambers (except for the caps) while at the house and then taking it to the range for test firing? No matter what loading problems you have at the range you are assured at least six shots, but you do lose your excuse for any excessive flatulence at the house.

 

[M. De Land]

Have you considered loading all six chambers (except for the caps) while at the house and then taking it to the range for test firing? No matter what loading problems you have at the range you are assured at least six shots, but you do lose your excuse for any excessive flatulence at the house.

Yeah, I've been kicking that very idea around but don't know how some range officers will react to seeing charged cylinders even though not capped.
I like the idea so I won't have to clean after a shot or two in the bullet trap. I think I'll take you up on the notion and chance getting evicted for unsafe gun handling. Many of these range people are really ignorant about black powder percussion guns but sure like the authority they have to boss folks around.
You'd be surprised how many folks still think black powder can be ingnited by a static charge!

 

[SDSmlf]

don't know how some range officers will react to seeing charged cylinders even though not capped.

Assemble the gun at the range, then cap. Don’t know what part of the world you are in, but in most places the gun isn’t loaded until caps are in place. As an FYI, I used to go to SASS events with half a dozen or more pre-loaded (sans caps) cylinders. Kept them in pouches (Ruger 10-22 pouches work well) before each stage and they were not considered loaded until I capped them on the gun(s) at the loading table.

 

[M. De Land]

Assemble the gun at the range, then cap. Don’t know what part of the world you are in, but in most places the gun isn’t loaded until caps are in place. As an FYI, I used to go to SASS events with half a dozen or more pre-loaded (sans caps) cylinders. Kept them in pouches (Ruger 10-22 pouches work well) before each stage and they were not considered loaded until I capped them on the gun(s) at the loading table.

Yes,the event people know all this but I don't think many of the every day range people generally have very much training in percussion gun safety. Hopefully I have this all wrong but it seems like most of them look at you with a jaundice eye in my experience.

 

[SDSmlf]

Yes,the event people know all this but I don't think many of the every day range people generally have very much training in percussion gun safety. Hopefully I have this all wrong but it seems like most of them look at you with a jaundice eye in my experience.

Maybe print off a copy of the appropriate local regulation if you can find it. May want to start with hunting regulations and what defines a loaded muzzleloader and see if it applies to acpistol, or apply it to a pistol cylinder (no percussion cap not loaded). From the sounds of things, it sounds like the gang you are worrying about dealing with would call a loaded centerfire cartridge a loaded gun, similar to what would happen if you had one in your pocket at a TSA checkpoint. But the TSA also treats water bottles and toenail clippers as weapons. You are going to a gun range, not an airport.

 

[Ed C.]

All this talk of "fixing" so many things before you ever shoot the guns you acquire. How much shooting do you do? I'd like to see if it results in much better groups than an "out of the box" gun. To me the basic function of the gun is to hit what what your are aiming at rather than make it a project of re engineering.

 

[M. De Land]

All this talk of "fixing" so many things before you ever shoot the guns you acquire. How much shooting do you do? I'd like to see if it results in much better groups than an "out of the box" gun. To me the basic function of the gun is to hit what what your are aiming at rather than make it a project of re engineering. Generally speaking tuned guns shoot more accurately than factory guns but not always. Sp,

A simple thing like a trigger job can make a gun easier to hit what your aiming at. Crowning a poorly trimmed barrel , evening out a forcing cone or correcting a poor sight picture can greatly enhance a revolvers performance.
What happens usually is each problem or short coming found and corrected will add a few percent of accuracy enhancement and the accumulative effect can be significant.