Getting the Walker tuned up

[M. De Land]

Boy that was fast from Midway and it appears to be quite well made with good timing, fit and finish. I started on the pre-shoot tune up smoothing spring,wedge corners and notch in hammer so it won't tend to pull caps. The wedge fits well and from the file test on one corner feels quite hard.
I checked the end gap on the arbor with a caliper measurement of the well bottom corner and it appears to be right at .060 which I will make a spring stock plug for, to fill the gap, install and begin testing full power loads. I've read that is 55 grains of 3F when using a 1/8th felt grease wad.
The trigger is a bit heavy so will install a sear lift to lighten and make it more clean breaking.
The wedge angle is the same 5 degrees as the ones I make and the arbor slot is flat most of the way across hopefully matching up to the wedge angle flat. Lot of cross wedge contact area.
We'll see what the wedge does as far as backing out and or battering !
I still need to check alignment, cylinder mouth diameter and uniformity along with bore level and diameter using a machinist plug gauge. Enjoying the new gun already !
The loading lever spring seems quite stout but I'm going to make a lock for it if it pops loose under recoil like most do in the videos I've watched.

 

[M. De Land]

Puters,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it told me I couldn't post because of not having a title so I make a new title and it post both.

 

[45D]

I thought you were going to see if it would "beat up" wedges without the spacer? So you ARE going to "fix" it before you shoot it hmmmmm . . .

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

I thought you were going to see if it would "beat up" wedges without the spacer? So you ARE going to "fix" it before you shoot it hmmmmm . . .

Mike

Yeah, I got to thinking it would be an easier way to find out if the wedge will back out or batter with the fix as all the videos I watched said the wedge would do both with full loads and I did not know if they had been end fitted. In one of the videos I watched a Walker you tuned was giving the owner problems with cylinder tie up, wedge back out and misfires. Later on the same guy made another video and the Walker worked correctly giving you the credit again. That puzzled me .
I knew I would eventually be end fitting mine any way to keep from tying the cylinder up as it does now if the wedge is pushed in to far which none of my other open frames do. That bit of reverse engineering may save a half days work making a new wedge. If not, so be it as I feel mine are better than factory anyway.
The Uberti Walker seems a different animal from the heavy loads used in them compared to the 62,60 and 51 I have in the safe. I need the experience on Walkers I will gain working mine over to my satisfaction. I have a couple of ideas to try on the loading lever spring to lock it in place under recoil. If those ideas don't pan out I will probably fit up a dragoon latch on the end.
I also acquired a loose arbor-ed brass 51 in .44 cal I have been wanting to see if I can bush with a steel arbor insert and recoil shield to resurrect the gun.

 

[Rich44]

 

[45D]

Yeah, I got to thinking it would be an easier way to find out if the wedge will back out or batter with the fix as all the videos I watched said the wedge would do both with full loads and I did not know if they had been end fitted. In one of the videos I watched a Walker you tuned was giving the owner problems with cylinder tie up, wedge back out and misfires. Later on the same guy made another video and the Walker worked correctly giving you the credit again. That puzzled me .

The video you saw with Blackpowder Shooter shooting in the woods was "before" he sent it to me ( thats why there's cap jams, wedge backing out, cylinder binding). We had talked and I told him I wouldn't shoot full loads until after it was fixed ( which is why he said that in the beginning).
A later video (shooting in an open field) shows a correct functioning Walker. The one where he actually hits targets, shaving cream cans, water bottles, ( love the watermelon shot!) and fans it.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

The video you saw with blackpowder44 shooting in the woods was "before" he sent it to me ( thats why there's cap jams, wedge backing out, cylinder binding). We had talked and I told him I wouldn't shoot full loads until after it was fixed ( which is why he said that in the beginning).
A later video (shooting in an open field) shows a correct functioning Walker. The one where he actually hits targets, shaving cream cans, water bottles, ( love the watermelon shot!) and fans it.

Mike

That makes sense but was puzzling from his first video ! Have you any ideas about securing loading lever flop down at recoil other than fitting up a Dragoon latch or leather thong ?

 

[M. De Land]

View attachment 247078

That's funny ! But you do know beagles are not fox dogs, right.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I fixed the Walker lever easily by trimming the lever spring base so the lever sets up to the barrel and using a needle file made the tiny bump on the retaining spring a bit more distinct. Works with full loads now.
before
IMG_1278 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
after
IMG_1279 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

 

[M. De Land]

I fixed the Walker lever easily by trimming the lever spring base so the lever sets up to the barrel and using a needle file made the tiny bump on the retaining spring a bit more distinct. Works with full loads now.
before
IMG_1278 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
after
IMG_1279 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

Thanks for the response ! In one of the videos I watched Mike Belvue "SP" made a similar mod to the spring end and it did help but I noticed it still was not 100 percent as he continued firing. My thought was to drill a small hole through the lower end of the loading lever behind the latch spring leg and fit a piece of spring wire on a bit of a curve with a purchase curl on the end for easy retrieval. The bit of curve would secure it as a cross pin blocking the latch spring end from backing out of it's seat under recoil.
It can be made quite small but still would be pretty unsightly I think but probably not any more out of place than a Dragoon latch on the end of the pointed lever.
The other idea I had was to make a flat spring pin that would insert from the opening at the bottom where the spring latch purchase is and block it's back out from that position. Both would be in plain sight.

 

[45D]

That makes sense but was puzzling from his first video ! Have you any ideas about securing loading lever flop down at recoil other than fitting up a Dragoon latch or leather thong ?

The "Dragoon" fix is what Kaido gets done to all his Walkers and it's a nice fix but I don't do that. I do the same thing Phil Coffins does on customer revolvers. I don't currently own a Walker as the extra "free bore" in a conversion cylinder bugs me . . . the Dragoon has enough "free bore" for everybody!!

If you modify the spring, make it so that it's REALLY hard to pull the lever down and it should be good. Use a single spacer for the arbor, shim stacks will eventually fail in a Walker.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

The "Dragoon" fix is what Kaido gets done to all his Walkers and it's a nice fix but I don't do that. I do the same thing Phil Coffins does on customer revolvers. I don't currently own a Walker as the extra "free bore" in a conversion cylinder bugs me . . . the Dragoon has enough "free bore" for everybody!!

If you modify the spring, make it so that it's REALLY hard to pull the lever down and it should be good. Use a single spacer for the arbor, shim stacks will eventually fail in a Walker.

Mike

Yeah, good thinking, I've got some .060 flat spring stock I will make the plug of, Close as I can measure with the dial caliper is roughly .060 so won't actually know exactly until I get it fitted up.
Dang, I hope the main spring never breaks as that bugger looks pretty challenging to reproduce from flat spring stock ! I'll get after all the sharp corners and edges to smooth her up !
I like this gun already and think it will be great fun to shoot and see how things work at that powder burn level.

 

[SDSmlf]

Yeah, good thinking, I've got some .060 flat spring stock I will make the plug of, Close as I can measure with the dial caliper is roughly .060 so won't actually know exactly until I get it fitted up.
Dang, I hope the main spring never breaks as that bugger looks pretty challenging to reproduce from flat spring stock ! I'll get after all the sharp corners and edges to smooth her up !
I like this gun already and think it will be great fun to shoot and see how things work at that powder burn level.

Stacked shims are great for figuring out what the actual single piece shim needs to be. You just have decide if you want to put in the barrel of add to the arbor.

Too bad you are not going to document the beating of the wedge before the fix. Many have done the fix without ‘appropriate’ documentation, myself included, and folks such as yourself call BS and deny the fix works. Except for personal satisfaction, you are wasting your time if you believe your results will change minds. You yourself argued for 17 pages and 270 posts that ‘To much is made out of short arbors’, so you documented a precedence. Without believable before and after documentation, I calling whatever you do BS and find it wrong. In other words, I’m agreeing with you, just going against with whatever you ultimately say is ‘true’. It will be like talking to yourself, and you should enjoy it.

 

[M. De Land]

Stacked shims are great for figuring out what the actual single piece shim needs to be. You just have decide if you want to put in the barrel of add to the arbor.

Too bad you are not going to document the beating of the wedge before the fix. Many have done the fix without ‘appropriate’ documentation, myself included, and folks such as yourself call BS and deny the fix works. Except for personal satisfaction, you are wasting your time if you believe your results will change minds. You yourself argued for 17 pages and 270 posts that ‘To much is made out of short arbors’, so you documented a precedence. Without believable before and after documentation, I calling whatever you do BS and find it wrong. In other words, I’m agreeing with you, just going against with whatever you ultimately say is ‘true’. It will be like talking to yourself, and you should enjoy it.

Trying some reverse psychology here? Why not see if the Walker wedge holds up with full power loads with the fix first seeing as that was going to ultimately happen any way?
If the factory wedge fails with full power loads and the end fit is in place then I'll look for another cause, if it holds up than I will know that there actually is bounce back occurring without the end fit that allows fore and aft movement giving the wedge a run at the arbor slot end at the front and the barrel slots at the rear. That means it's wedge slack and barrel mass movement that is causing the batter not the BS of harmonic vibration from the end of the arbor pressed into the end of the arbor well. It's called reverse engineering !
I can find out the same thing without the possibility of having to make a new wedge and that's just using the old noodle my friend!
I've always believed end fitting a good modification, have said so repeatedly and am discovering it's more important in extreme models like the Walker than in the other models that keep right on working well for decades without it. Most of the open frame guns in existence still operating do not have the arbor ends fit up and keep shooting and are quite accurate. Take a look at www.capandball.eu give his old beat up 70's model 51 short arbored Pietta a 100 meter accuracy test. I say short arbor because he keeps bumping the wedge to presumably keep it tight between each shot. Kinda knocks the short arbor no accuracy myth in the head ................. no ?

 

[Pete453]

The one where he actually hits targets, shaving cream cans, water bottles, ( love the watermelon shot!) and fans it.

FANS A WALKER?! I'm going to have to see that! Can you tell me what to search for?

 

[Rich44]

That's funny ! But you do know beagles are not fox dogs, right.

They are both going after the same rabbit!

In this application is there any reason why you would not think that solid metal to metal contact would not work the best?

 

[45D]

Most of the open frame guns in existence still operating do not have the arbor ends fit up and keep shooting and are quite accurate. Take a look at www.capandball.eu give his old beat up 70's model 51 short arbored Pietta a 100 meter accuracy test. I say short arbor because he keeps bumping the wedge to presumably keep it tight between each shot. Kinda knocks the short arbor no accuracy myth in the head ................. no ?

Most don't shoot max loads and neither does Mr. Capandball.
You sure do try hard to step on the toes of folks with experience, especially when you admit you don't have much !! ( not to mention calling everything b.s. that you don't agree with ( don't know about!!))

Mike

 

[45D]

FANS A WALKER?! I'm going to have to see that! Can you tell me what to search for?

Hey Pete453, I don't do fancy keyboard stuff but if you'll Google - shooting the Colt Walker- his are the first to show up. "Blackpowder Shooter".

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

FANS A WALKER?! I'm going to have to see that! Can you tell me what to search for?

They are both going after the same rabbit!

In this application is there any reason why you would not think that solid metal to metal contact would not work the best?

I agree metal to metal end fit of arbor and well bottom is the best/easiest method to regulate wedge depth which is what establishes barrel cylinder gap along with lower lug adjustment and arbor end fit if employed and have always said so ! It is particularly important apparently with extremely heavily loaded revolvers like the Walker because it eliminates any chance of fore/aft movement (bounce back off the arbor slot) of the barrel to make slack in the wedge fit which causes the battering.
I don't agree that harmonics is the reason for the wedge and slot battering or that the short arbor guns are inaccurate and will self destruct.
As far as the Walker is concerned it apparently has always had a history of wedge battering! It apparently occurred in the arbor end fit originals as well.
The whole reason for my recent Walker purchase is to find out first hand cause and effect of wedge battering.
If the factory wedge batters with full power loads and the arbor end is fit up tight to the arbor well bottom I will know that it is just a quirk/weakness of the Walker much like the loading lever spring latch.

 

[Dude]

I've got a Uberti Walker and finally got around to measuring the arbor end gap. My other guns I can rotate the barrel 90 degrees and compare match-up. But on this gun the arbor just wouldn't go down more than half way. This one took a shim .086" thick.

The opening of the arbor well is .520" so my first shim was that diameter. It fit only a short way down the bore. So I made a .515, then a .510, and finally a .505". I'm not crazy about that much taper in the arbor bore, but nothing I can do about it. I also don't care for the angled floor of the bore. I would have preferred the shim fitting the bottom completely, but as it is, it's just around the outer edge.

What do you do, Mike? The center of the bore is another .060" deeper. Do you make the shim fit exactly?