GOEX PLANT

[CaptainKirk]

discussion of the hobby includes all the factors that may affect it. Am I wrong?

Not if contrary to the moderator's rules.

 

[Osseon]

discussion of the hobby includes all the factors that may affect it. Am I wrong?

By that you mean the plant fire that caused the plant to shut down? It seems like everyone and their mother is coming on here with their theory on how politics is the reason, when its clear what caused this plant to shut down was a fire. Goex stated on their press release that it is unprofitable to continue, why make more out of it then it is?
There are no other current factors effecting this hobby in any major capacity.

I am not content at the moment with the state of many things, but I'm not going to air them out here, I have other outlets and groups that I discuss that with.

 

[Onojutta]

The reenactors..., won't.

OH if Scheutzen steps up it might be OK, but there is a big difference between burning an $18 can of powder for blanks on a weekend, vs. a $30 can of powder on a weekend. It doesn't seem like much per person... but it adds up. A lot of units buy in bulk to mitigate hazmat and shipping fees. A group fielding an average of 12 muskets per event, and doing one event per month, the old cost for powder even after COVID was $3000 per year, but now if all one can get is Swiss..., that'd be $4800 per year, and that's not figuring smaller events and and such. Some groups don't have that kind of cash.

LD

$18 a can? I just paid $69 + change today for two pounds of Goex. Your point is well taken about cost but even at $30/pound this is a fraction of the cost of what ammo costs for modern guns. For example, $30 only gets me one box of centerfire rifle ammo or couple rounds of trap. People find the money for what they want and what is important to them.

 

[Onojutta]

By that you mean the plant fire that caused the plant to shut down? It seems like everyone and their mother is coming on here with their theory on how politics is the reason, when its clear what caused this plant to shut down was a fire. Goex stated on their press release that it is unprofitable to continue, why make more out of it then it is?
There are no other current factors effecting this hobby in any major capacity.

I am not content at the moment with the state of many things, but I'm not going to air them out here, I have other outlets and groups that I discuss that with.

Everything is influenced by politics, especially rising costs due to inflation. Did politics and economic policy play a part in why Goex can't make a profit? Your guess is as good as mine. Even in a great economy there are companies that fail due to poor decision making and other economic forces, including fires and loss. But blaming this solely on a fire might be a bit narrow minded at the same time.

 

[CaptainKirk]

The decision, according to Hodgdon, came down to profit and loss and had nothing to do with the fire. Black Powder was not profitable so they are considering offers from prospective buyers who are already in the business according to a YT interview I heard today.

 

[Tenring]

Some company will pick up the ball and run with it, maybe it stays in the USA and the price does not rise. I guess or hope, what the hell do I know anyway.

 

[Osseon]

Everything is influenced by politics, especially rising costs due to inflation. Did politics and economic policy play a part in why Goex can't make a profit? Your guess is as good as mine. Even in a great economy there are companies that fail due to poor decision making and other economic forces, including fires and loss. But blaming this solely on a fire might be a bit narrow minded at the same time.

Yes, but why that inflation is the way it is and the economy is the way it is will be heatedly debated until the view cows come home and serves no purpose here.

 

[Wolfman0125]

Funny how the BP industry cites profit loss yet the shelves are empty. Stores decided not to order? Hazmat fees too high to ship it? Gas prices too high to haul it? Doubt it is just lack of enthusiasm. Something doesn’t add up. So the gun industry is screwed. Oh well, back to swordplay I recon.

 

[Tenring]

Just think the government bailed out Ford, Chrysler, and Harley-Davidson how about Goex…

 

[Brokennock]

Yes, the reason they are closing the plant is economics, plain and simple.
The politics angle isn't the plant closing.
It is how it effects the future of what we do, given that they were the only U.S. manufacturer of real black powder.
Politics did not close the plant, but could very well be a reason another one doesn't open.
Politics didn't close the plant, but could very well be the reason whatever powder we have now, is all we will ever get. It is politics that will be behind banning black powder importation when and if that happens.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

Everything is influenced by politics, especially rising costs due to inflation. Did politics and economic policy play a part in why Goex can't make a profit? Your guess is as good as mine. Even in a great economy there are companies that fail due to poor decision making and other economic forces, including fires and loss. But blaming this solely on a fire might be a bit narrow minded at the same time.

I can very easily see the economics of restarting production affecting the decision. One thing we don't know (and never will) is the cost numbers debated in the meeting they had about restarting production in the GOEX plant. If you had a chain of stores and the one that was barely making money burned down, would you spend the money to rebuild? There's a strong argument against closing a running facility (even one that's only turning a small profit). That argument is not as strong if the facility ceases production due to an accident and the cost to reopen takes years to recoup. This story happens in business all the time. A corporation's investment decision will just about always come down to where can we make the most money with the least amount of risk and aggravation. We can hope that someone steps up. Otherwise, I guess I'll be buying Swiss.

 

[Okie Hog]

Another factor could have influenced the decision to close the Goex plant. Since 1997 there have been seven booms and fires at the Goex plant. The folks who live nearby are gun shy.

A company named Explo stored 7,800 tons of deteriorating artillery propellant in leased bunkers there. A massive spontaneous explosion of a bunker took place in 2012. In 2016 there was another massive explosion when another bunker blew up. A company contracted to dispose of the propellant and it's gone.

The June, 2021 incident was more than just a fire. An explosion started the fire. The neighbors may be tired of booms coming from the place.

 

[Canute Rex]

Remember that we are all still out here burning powder. Where there is demand there will be supply. It will undoubtedly be supplied at a greater price. The days of below $20 a pound are gone. Other manufacturers will ramp up production. Someone might buy the Goex plant and raise the price to meet the expenses. If not, we'll be buying from elsewhere.

 

[Wolfman0125]

Goex had no competition really to speak of. One plant supplied the continent. I think other factors came into play besides risk assessment and bottom line. I think that it could have been feared to be a potential target or a source of supply for terrorist activities and Goex may have received a friendly suggestion by big bro to close it’s doors. Kind of like how farmers are being paid their subsidies to destroy their crops. Also by the fact in the current anti gun climate BP firearms ( not considered firearms) are the most attainable (though not the most tactical ) are easily obtained without a paper trail. Government can’t legally control who has firearms without violating the constitution. But it says nothing about the control of Ammo does it? Kind of makes them wall hangers and paperweights. However, true woodsmen know how to get around that too.

 

[springfield art]

You may know if this is correct. Saw on a YouTube video that the US military uses about 1 million pounds of black powder a year. I do know that black powder is used in fuses and things like that.Is the million pounds way off the mark or do you even know? Thanks in advance.

Can't imagine what they use it for? Other than ceremonial cannon salutes? The big 16" Naval guns aren't used anymore.

 

[springfield art]

Remember that we are all still out here burning powder. Where there is demand there will be supply. It will undoubtedly be supplied at a greater price. The days of below $20 a pound are gone. Other manufacturers will ramp up production. Someone might buy the Goex plant and raise the price to meet the expenses. If not, we'll be buying from elsewhere.

I agree. The price of modern ammo will go down somewhat, but not to the level before the shortage/panic. Cost of raw materials and labor are going up.

 

[Wolfman0125]

What about fireworks? I’ll bet China would take over the plant in a heartbeat. They are buying up everything else in the US.

 

[CaptainKirk]

IBTL...

 

[Sam squanch]

Shut the thread down….. nothing new here.

 

[Ian Straus]

You may know if this is correct. Saw on a YouTube video that the US military uses about 1 million pounds of black powder a year. I do know that black powder is used in fuses and things like that.Is the million pounds way off the mark or do you even know? Thanks in advance.

A million pounds is believable, but i don't know how much DOD uses per year.
Why is it believable?
Every artillery round uses black powder:
If it's separate loading,( that is 155mm and up), then sewn at the back of the stack of bags of nitrocellulose powder is a red bag of black powder. That is the igniter. At least a couple of ounces by eye, I never weighed one.
If it's semifixed (105mm) then in the middle of that big metal cartridge case there is a pierced tube full of black powder. That is the igniter.
In both cases the primer sets the black powder off and the black powder is what lights the nitrocellulose powder off.

I don't know how tank main gun ammo is constructed. But i suspect there is an igniter in there too.

Not sure about current rocket propellant increments, whether TOW or MLRS or aerial weapons, but I know Honest John (that has been out of the inventory since 1974) had a big black powder igniter.

Black powder is also used for other purposes; For instance illumination shells and ICM have an ejecting charge, and pyrotechnics like smoke rounds have to be lit somehow.