Hammer Wobble

[centershot]

Hello Guys,

I was able to con, ahh, err, I mean con-vince an old friend to sell me his flintlock after he quit hunting deer last year. Nothing fancy mind you, it's an old TC .50 Caliber Renegade, much the same rifle that I owned forty years ago. He had grown weary of the "sometimes yes-sometimes no" ignition and retired the rifle years ago. I recognized the symptoms he described and. thanks to this forum, I knew that all was not lost. I told him what was needed (New frizzen and hammer from Ox-Yoke and some real flints, not those sawn agates that TC markets). He didn't want anything to do with it and agreed to sell me the rifle (Yay!).

I bought the parts and picked up some large black English flints from Track and set to work. The first thing I did was stone the bottom of the frizzen where it contacted the spring, pretty ragged edge there. Then installed the frizzen and tried moving it fore and aft, nice and smooth but with authority on the "open" stroke. OK. The hanner was next. Once I placed the new hammer on the shaft, I discovered that it was a loose fit, even with the screw tightened all the way down. It wobled a little side to side and fore and aft, about 1/8". I removed the hammer and mikied the hole and also the original, .004" difference. EEK! For those that have done this, what did you use to shim that up?

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hello Guys,

I was able to con, ahh, err, I mean con-vince an old friend to sell me his flintlock after he quit hunting deer last year. Nothing fancy mind you, it's an old TC .50 Caliber Renegade, much the same rifle that I owned forty years ago. He had grown weary of the "sometimes yes-sometimes no" ignition and retired the rifle years ago. I recognized the symptoms he described and. thanks to this forum, I knew that all was not lost. I told him what was needed (New frizzen and hammer from Ox-Yoke and some real flints, not those sawn agates that TC markets). He didn't want anything to do with it and agreed to sell me the rifle (Yay!).

I bought the parts and picked up some large black English flints from Track and set to work. The first thing I did was stone the bottom of the frizzen where it contacted the spring, pretty ragged edge there. Then installed the frizzen and tried moving it fore and aft, nice and smooth but with authority on the "open" stroke. OK. The hanner was next. Once I placed the new hammer on the shaft, I discovered that it was a loose fit, even with the screw tightened all the way down. It wobled a little side to side and fore and aft, about 1/8". I removed the hammer and mikied the hole and also the original, .004" difference. EEK! For those that have done this, what did you use to shim that up?

That .004 slop will for sure make it wobble. Shims will help, but getting them in is the trick. What I have done to help some of the issue, is to anneal the hammer bottom only. Then place the hammer on a good vice or anvil and peen the hole, folding the square sides inward. Be carful not to go wider than the screw will cover. It is ugly, and something some guys would not do, but, If ya can't see it and it works, that is the way I vote.
Good luck.
Larry

 

[wiscoaster]

Hello Guys,

.... The hanner was next. Once I placed the new hammer on the shaft, I discovered that it was a loose fit, even with the screw tightened all the way down. It wobled a little side to side and fore and aft, about 1/8". I removed the hammer and mikied the hole and also the original, .004" difference. EEK! For those that have done this, what did you use to shim that up?

Sorry, but I think you need to do a little more studying up on what makes a flint lock work and its proper disassembly and reassembly. First of all, it's not a "hammer". Second of all, it's not held in place by the screw. The cock is held in place by friction fit to the tumbler shaft to which it's attached. If the shaft isn't seated all the way into the cock there will be a wobble of the cock. I had a similar problem of cock wobble on my Sea Service pistol and I had to put the lock in a vise to completely seat the cock onto the tumbler shaft using some very considerable pressure to "squeeze" it into place. If the tumbler shaft isn't even with the outside of the cock then it isn't properly seated.

 

[rich pierce]

As mentioned above peening can help. It’s probably good for a couple hundred shots.

For a longer lasting solution I run braze into the square axle hole in the cock. After it has run but still molten I pick it up and tap it against a brick to make most of the melted braze fly out. Then file to get a snug fit with the tumbler axle as needed.

Much more work is to braze in a square, tight-fitting piece of mild steel. Then re-cut the whole square hole a little undersized. The braze line is your guide. This is a “like new” fix.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

That .004 slop will for sure make it wobble. Shims will help, but getting them in is the trick. What I have done to help some of the issue, is to anneal the hammer bottom only. Then place the hammer on a good vice or anvil and peen the hole, folding the square sides inward. Be carful not to go wider than the screw will cover. It is ugly, and something some guys would not do, but, If ya can't see it and it works, that is the way I vote.
Good luck.
Larry

Check the hammer with a file to see if it's hard or soft. Do this on the back of the hammer where it won't show. You can tell by the feel if it's hard or soft. It it's soft you won't need to anneal it. Then do like Larry says. Use a flat faced punch 3/16" or so. If you're careful on the outside like he says the punch marks will be covered by the hammer screw and the marks on the inside won't show.

I've also done as Rich mentioned above when fitting a new hammer to an old lock, mainly to get it to index right. If I drive in the square plug from the inside with some flux on it I can run some soft solder into the joint. I haven't had one come loose yet. I taper the hole so it's larger on the inside on both the plug and the new square hole in the hammer so the hammer screw won't pull the plug out.

 

[fleener]

Little did I know that the screw does not hold in place the hammer/cock. I dont think I will remove the screws and hope that the hammer/cock will stay where they are supposed to.

Wiscoaster perhaps it is you that needs to become better educated and not be an internet expert talking down to folks. Cock and hammer are both used for a flintlock.

I use shims. AL from a pop can or brass. You can hammer them down to the thickness you need and put a tapper on one end to make it fit better. Dont forget to put the screw back on.

Fleener

 

[oldramrod]

I make shims out of brass shim stock available at any true hardware store. You can cut the shim stock with a heavy pair of shears, It is available in thicknesses of .001, .002., .003, .005 , .010. I fold it so that I have two adajacent sides shimed.

 

[James Kibler]

Little did I know that the screw does not hold in place the hammer/cock. I dont think I will remove the screws and hope that the hammer/cock will stay where they are supposed to.

Wiscoaster perhaps it is you that needs to become better educated and not be an internet expert talking down to folks. Cock and hammer are both used for a flintlock.

I use shims. AL from a pop can or brass. You can hammer them down to the thickness you need and put a tapper on one end to make it fit better. Dont forget to put the screw back on.

Fleener
View attachment 369350

Cock is the proper terminology for a flintlock. Hammer is a percussion part. This has historically been the proper usage. If someone in modern times doesn't use it correctly I really don't know what to say. The drawing with labels only says that who ever put it together didn't really understand the difference or proper usage.

 

[fleener]

I know my experience is very limited in this area, so I have to rely on research and others with more knowledge than I.

"The Flintlock: Its Origin, Development, and Use" by Torsten Lenk uses both hammer and cock interchangeably.

This book is described as: A groundbreaking treatise based on fifteen years of research, Torsten Lenk's classic study of the flintlock has been acclaimed for decades as the essential book on the subject. His passion for this historic weapon was almost as remarkable as his precision and his eye for detail. From his post as Director of the Swedish Royal Armory, he traveled far and wide to inspect thousands of rare weapons stored in private collections. His illuminating volume encompasses the development of this essential hunting and fighting tool, and it is without equal as a reference for flintlock collectors, dealers, or owners—or for anyone with an interest in weapons and history.

 

[James Kibler]

Little did I know that the screw does not hold in place the hammer/cock. I dont think I will remove the screws and hope that the hammer/cock will stay where they are supposed to.

Wiscoaster perhaps it is you that needs to become better educated and not be an internet expert talking down to folks. Cock and hammer are both used for a flintlock.

I use shims. AL from a pop can or brass. You can hammer them down to the thickness you need and put a tapper on one end to make it fit better. Dont forget to put the screw back on.

Fleener
View attachment 369350

Cock is the proper terminology for a flintlock. Hammer is a percussion part. This has historically been the proper usage. If someone in modern times doesn't use it correctly I really don't know what to say. The drawing with labels only says that who ever put it together didn't really understand the difference or proper usage.

 

[James Kibler]

Really, it matters little what Lenk says. In my experience, these academic researchers were not always the most accurate in their descriptions. I've not seen any period descriptions of a hammer in use for a flintlock. Think about it... What's it doing? Smashing a cap like hammer.

I recall having this same discussion with Wallace and the definitive answer is hammer only refers to a percussion lock part. Trust me this is the widespread opinion of those versed in this stuff...

 

[fleener]

Little doubt that in today's world here in the USA that a cock and a hammer are typically two different things. I have seen in historical records where the frizzen was also called a hammer amongst other things. The American Society of Arms Collectors also will at times use hammer for what we today call a cock.

I have never met Wallace, and I am not familiar with the breadth of his historic background to know the extent of his knowledge.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I call it a cock when referring to a flinting piece.

I like to think it’s because the shape reminds one of a delicious chicken’s neck?

I don’t know. I just might be fat.

 

[oldwood]

To easily tighten a flint hammer , or percussion hammer on the tumbler shaft , carefully remove the hammer from the tumbler shaft using the proper tools. A main spring vise is helpful to remove the spring tension off the tumbler. Remove the screws holding the tumbler bridle . If the tumbler falls free of the lock plate , don't loose the fly , and note the correct position of the fly. If the hammer is still on the square tumbler shaft , lay the underside of the lock plate on top of small vise jaws , so the tumbler has clearance to fall loose when the hammer is removed from the tumbler square. Use a straight punch that fits w/o binding in the tumbler screw hole , and w/the underside of the lock plate supported by the small vise jaws , gently tap the punch until the hammer falls loose from the tumbler shaft. I know , this all sounds tedious , but I hate to buy expensive tools to do a simple job of removing a hammer. Now back to the tightening the hammer on the tumbler shaft. I've done this a bunch of times with total success. Lay the flint/percussion hammer outside down flat on a flat steel surface. Go around the back side of the tumbler square hole with a center punch , keeping the punch marks 1/16" from the tumbler square hole edge. Three punch marks per flat or less should do it. Refit the hammer square to the tumbler shaft square just enough so the hammer starts on the shaft. Put the tumbler back in the lock plate and start the hammer on the tumbler , making sure the hammer and tumbler are in the correct position for proper assembly. Go back to the small vise , and squeeze the two mateing hammer square hole and tumbler shaft square together , one vise jaw on the outside of the hammer , and the other vise jaw on the back of the tumbler. If the two parts don't snuggly mate in position ,remove as before , and either use a square file inside the hammer square and slightly remove a little metal until the hammer fits the tumbler shaft going halfway onto the tumbler before vise pressure is reapplied. Don't use a hammer to drive the two squares together . Hammering could damage the tumbler shaft by disfigureing it , and the battle is lost. Use the vise to press the parts together. If all this is confusing , go find someone to do it for you........LOL...oldwood

 

[Rudyard]

Flint locks have a cock that holds the flint. The strook item most call' frizzen'
can be & was called a' Hammer' Or' Steel' the term' steel '
is what I use .Percussion locks have a hammer well enough but it got called a cock by such a Lt Col Hawker but you can see that in his days. I only use' frizzen' if I'me talking to a modern person new to Flint guns . I suppose I'me modern enough only been shooting MLs for over 65 years but I have a good library inc Torsten Lenks book I Used to pack my copy of J .N. Georges' English guns & rifles 'all over .From my possomers 'humpy' to the hights of Kathmandu .
Rudyards
two pennoth