Hard card on top of shot= denser patterns?

[Skychief]

A man's got to have his priorities straight BrownBear.....and I can understand yours :thumbsup: .

 

[azmntman]

What caliber do you use for King Salmon? :hmm: :rotf:

 

[BrownBear]

It's a period correct 20-footer! Smaller calibers are fine for short range shooting, while bigger get expensive to feed and don't shoot as flat. :rotf:

 

[George]

I've done that on the Kenai River in an inflatable, caught a big one and we went 3 miles downstream before I could boat it. That will give any hunting sport stiff competition. You lucky dog, you.

Spence

 

[George]

At one point, I used the identical load, except, I used a hard (nitro) card on top of the shot.

The pattern produced was denser than my usual turkey loading using a thin card atop the shot”¦...

”¦”¦ It goes against traditional thinking, but, the proof is in the pudding.

Skychief, I ran across something you might find interesting. One of my favorite sources is a 1767 book by Thomas Page, London, The Art of Shooting Flying. He's an interesting character, was into many things, and did a bunch of experiments with different guns, different powders, different loads, made and used his own ballistics pendulum. One of the things he tested was loads with the shot directly on the powder, no wads. Here's his conclusion about that, and notice what he says at the end of this bit.

"It appears from various other trials besides these, which I have made, that the shot fly as regularly, or more so, and with as much force without any wad betwixt the powder and shot, as it does with wad only. ”˜Tis difficult to keep the shot from mixing with the powder; and when it does, that will affect it: but it proves this much at least, that it does not signify how thin your wad is betwixt the powder and shot, so it does but keep them from mixing. But the shot fly the thicker and stronger from having a pretty good wad closely rammed over them."

Ah, nothing is ever really invented, it's always invented again. :grin:

Spence

 

[BrownBear]

Fantastic citation Spence! That book would keep a guy turning pages into the wee hours of a night.

 

[George]

And it has. :grin:

Spence

 

[Skychief]

Very interesting Spence, very interesting indeed. :hmm:

I may not be the mother of invention, but the feller using a pretty traditional load, at least in one way.

248 years old!!! :haha:

I will be hunting for a copy of that book. Thanks for posting the citation.

Best regards, Skychief.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Skychief, as I mentioned in my previous post on this topic I shoot a variation of the thick overshot card method by using three .030 thick overshot cards. This weekend I was at the patterning board and decide to try adding an additional overshot card bring the thickness of the overshot column to .120, which is .005 less than one overpowder wad.
There was no significant improvement over the patterns shot with the .090 combination. But as a control I did shoot several patterns with only 2 over shot cards and those patterns were significantly thinner than the patterns shot with the .090 wad combination.
My conclusion, for my 28 gauge trade gun, is that an overshot wad of between .090 and .125 will produce denser patterns than with a thinner overshot wad combination.

 

[Skychief]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thanks for posting your results FP Dan!

Best regards, Skychief

 

[coloradoclyde]

At one point, I used the identical load, except, I used a hard (nitro) card on top of the shot.

The pattern produced was denser than my usual turkey loading using a thin card atop the shot”¦...

”¦”¦ It goes against traditional thinking, but, the proof is in the pudding.

Skychief, I ran across something you might find interesting. One of my favorite sources is a 1767 book by Thomas Page, London, The Art of Shooting Flying. He's an interesting character, was into many things, and did a bunch of experiments with different guns, different powders, different loads, made and used his own ballistics pendulum. One of the things he tested was loads with the shot directly on the powder, no wads. Here's his conclusion about that, and notice what he says at the end of this bit.

"It appears from various other trials besides these, which I have made, that the shot fly as regularly, or more so, and with as much force without any wad betwixt the powder and shot, as it does with wad only. ”˜Tis difficult to keep the shot from mixing with the powder; and when it does, that will affect it: but it proves this much at least, that it does not signify how thin your wad is betwixt the powder and shot, so it does but keep them from mixing. But the shot fly the thicker and stronger from having a pretty good wad closely rammed over them."

Ah, nothing is ever really invented, it's always invented again. :grin:

Spence

Have you actually tried that Spence?
I'm going to try it.... That's a new one for me... :hatsoff:

 

[Darkgael]

I hunt the uplands with a 16 gauge fowler. My standard load is 2 3/4 drams of FFg, a "mini" nitro card (1/16"), 1 1/8 oz of shot, a mini nitro card on top. Patterns well, drops the birds, and I carry only one kind of card.
Pete

 

[George]

Have you actually tried that Spence?

I haven't tried shot directly on the powder, couldn't figure how to get the shot down that long barrel without mixing it with the powder.

Spence

 

[BrownBear]

I haven't tried shot directly on the powder, couldn't figure how to get the shot down that long barrel without mixing it with the powder.

When I first read about that, my thought was to start a single layer of something like grocery sack paper. Could be about any paper including newspaper.

Gotta try it. But all my to-its are square.

Doesn't resolve my concerns about hard fouling without that lubed fiber wad and lots of shooting in a day's hunt, But it's still interesting enough to try for a shot or two.

 

[George]

When I first read about that, my thought was to start a single layer of something like grocery sack paper. Could be about any paper including newspaper.

I have shot with brown paper between powder and shot and more as an overshot wad. That works, but tends to be low velocity, and the patterns aren't great. I've also shot with tow a fair amount, and it is good. I had a 'better idea' and combined the two, load powder, paper, tow, shot and tow, and that definitely increases the pressure and velocity. I killed a turkey with that load last week.

Brown paper is said to be the best wad by Page, who gives detailed instructions, Cleator, and in The Sportsman’s Companion; or, an Essay on Shooting - By a Gentleman - 1783.

Spence

 

[Eric Krewson]

I was unloading my turkey gun for the season and stuffed in a few more cereal box thin wads over the shot to see if there was difference in the pattern.

I proceeded to snatch the trigger and almost missed my turkey target.

Next I loaded my usual turkey load of 100 gr of 1F,over shot card, lubed wool wonder wad, 100 gr powder measurement of copper coated #4s and a 1/8" thick vegetable tanned leather wad.

I only took on shot with this load, mother day and all my neighbors were having company, I didn't want to rattle their cage too much.

My pattern was spotty but tight with some places being hit with 5 or 6 shot in a circle as small as a quarter. I need more testing to be sure but his appears to work.

I shoot a 12 ga fowler with a 38" Colerain English fowler barrel jug choked full by Caywood.

 

[Skychief]

That's great Eric!

Not much to go on yet, but, maybe enough to get you to try some more "Skychief Special" loads. :haha:

Please let us know here if/when ya try some more, okay?

Good luck, Skychief