Hard-tack recipes?

[Ringel05]

Also all sorts of ship biscuit, either made of English or corn flour."

Is it possible that a distinction between what we would call white flour and whole wheat flour or finely ground and coarsely ground flour is being made here ?

That was part of what I was thinking. There are actually 6 types of wheat. If the ad is referring to a business in Charles Town (Charleston) South Carolina, by the 1760s Wheat was a major cash crop in SC only surpassed by rice and indigo.

The American Frontier: An Archaeological Study of Settlement Pattern and Process

 

[coloradoclyde]

The ad is from a Baker in 1767 and the "corn" refers to ships bisket,
So what would a baker have made ships biskit out of?

 

[Ringel05]

The ad is from a Baker in 1767 and the "corn" refers to ships bisket,
So what would a baker have made ships biskit out of?

Did it refer to ships biscuits or was it separate? Guess it's in how one reads it. If it refers to ships biscuits then I know of no instance where ships biscuits were made from Maize (Indian) flour.
Now Rooster Cogburn might have enjoyed his corn dodgers but that was later in history and he was a fictional character....... Besides he wasn't undersail.... unless you consider the characters hard drinking...... :wink:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Were on the same track!
I'm trying to look at it from the baker's perspective since he placed the ad.

I found this interesting. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...BLkhn4zf2XDTTgo8g&sig2=6NPFmDDDfDCcr_nlzBKAKg

 

[coloradoclyde]

More reference supporting the idea that a distinction of the type of wheat four used is being made.
Most early millers were german or dutch.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...1bU9eScwDX1eEOvIg&sig2=hz4mS29-rSs78_fuSZo5MQ

 

[Ringel05]

Were on the same track!
I'm trying to look at it from the baker's perspective since he placed the ad.

I found this interesting. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...2XDTTgo8g&sig2=6NPFmDDDfDCcr_nlzBKAKg[/quote]
Not only the bakers perspective but also the common nomenclature of the period. So far, from what I've found the colonists used the word corn to refer to wheat, rye and barley grains, if they were talking about corn as we know it they either called it Maize or Indian corn. To this day only Americans, Canadians and Australians refer to Maize as corn and for Americans that distinction did not start until after the War of 1812 as another way of distancing themselves from British common word usage.

BTW, great links.

 

[coloradoclyde]

This article is intersting. http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/info_sheet_ship_biscuit.htm
First the author references an egyptian loaf of maize bread called dhourra , but no referrence to dhourra being made from maize can be found .....only millet. Also maize did not grow in egypt.
He then goes on to say;

"King Richard I (Lionheart) left for the Third Crusade (1189-92) with “biskit of muslin” - mixed corn compound of barley, rye and bean flour.

( note: corn compound it defined as, barley, rye and bean flour ).

And later gives a recipe for ships biskit that contains only flour and no maize.
keeping in mind that in 1767 america was a british colony and ships biskit was "british" as were the majority if ships.
I conclude that corn was a synonym for grain other than maize

 

[George]

And what's your conclusion as to the meaning of the term "English" flour in the ad?

Spence

 

[Ringel05]

And what's your conclusion as to the meaning of the term "English" flour in the ad?

Spence

I already showed the reference to English flour as being from soft wheat, basically a pastry flour. Granted I'm still looking for more references.

 

[Ringel05]

Just found a treasure trove.

Early Modern English

I'd love to find Samuel Johnsons First Edition (Dictionary Of the English Language)published in 1755, this has a link to the Third Edition published in 1768.

 

[Ringel05]

Found another interesting "document".

The Trade of the Middle Colonies

Excerpt:

The goods with which the province of New York trades are not very numerous. They chiefly export the skins of animals, which are bought of the Indians about Oswego; great quantities of boards coming for the most part from Albany; timber and ready made lumber, from that part of the country which lies about the river Hudson; and lastly wheat, flour, barley, oats and other kinds of corn, which are brought from New Jersey and the cultivated parts o f this province. I have seen yachts from New Brunswick, laden with wheat which lay loose on board, and with flour packed up into tuns; and also with great quantities of linseed. New York likewise exports some flesh and other provisions out of its own province, but they are very few; nor is the quantity of pease which the people about Albany bring much greater. Iron however may be had more plentifully, as it is found in several parts of this province, and is of a considerable goodness; but all the other products of this country are of little account.

 

[coloradoclyde]

And what's your conclusion as to the meaning of the term "English" flour in the ad?

Spence

Well! from what I gather, "English" referred to the finest siftings that came from a single mill pass. "Corn" referred to the second and coarser siftings.
what was left was discarded.
I read that the "English" flour or the finest siftings produced a softer, easier to eat biskit.

I'm baking a maize inspired biskit right now just to get some sense of what it would be like if it were made from maize.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

1st let me say I have learned a ton I did not know reading this topic :applause:

A bit ff but as to storage of Ships biscuits.

My guess would be that the weevils (most likely their eggs) were introduced after the biscuit was baked, from the raw flour in the bakery.

I understand this was not done....but my 1st thought was to keep the weevils at bay, crate or barrel the biscuits, remove a bung (to vent any moisture), reheat to say 200 for 8 hours, replace bung while they were still hot.

Sorry I know it is ff but ya all got me thinking of all the book & movies where they were tapping the weevils out. Odd to think no one tried this until you remember Louis Pasteur came up with his Idea in 1864

 

[coloradoclyde]

Wouldn't cooking a barrel for 8 hours cause it to shrink to the point that insects could just walk right in?

Weevils were probably introduced by poor sanitation and poor packaging after cooking.

For example a baker could handle egg laden flour one minute and hardtack the next creating cross contamination.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Well if you can burn a Bourbon barrel I would think a low temp of 200 f wouldn't hurt a barrel meant to be at sea for a year

 

[coloradoclyde]

I ruined an oak barrel by storing it in a dry environment at about 120 degrees.

charring is done quickly and then a barrel is filled with liquid bourbon, wine etc. so that it swells up tight.

 

[Ringel05]

1st let me say I have learned a ton I did not know reading this topic :applause:

A bit ff but as to storage of Ships biscuits.

My guess would be that the weevils (most likely their eggs) were introduced after the biscuit was baked, from the raw flour in the bakery.

I understand this was not done....but my 1st thought was to keep the weevils at bay, crate or barrel the biscuits, remove a bung (to vent any moisture), reheat to say 200 for 8 hours, replace bung while they were still hot.

Sorry I know it is ff but ya all got me thinking of all the book & movies where they were tapping the weevils out. Odd to think no one tried this until you remember Louis Pasteur came up with his Idea in 1864

Don't you know, in the service one always chooses the lesser of two weevils.......

Also slightly off topic but germaine to the discussion at hand, (The G** D***** Germans got nothing to do with this), is nomenclature. I found and posted in another thread a while ago a reference in Great Britain of a very rough woven wool fabric they called cotton. The effort in attempting to know what the people of whichever era we're representing called things helps us understand and reproduce those items better.
Oh and the OP wanted to know how to make hard tack/sea biscuits, good to know what they were made of. :wink:
:grin:

 

[Ringel05]

1st let me say I have learned a ton I did not know reading this topic :applause:

A bit ff but as to storage of Ships biscuits.

My guess would be that the weevils (most likely their eggs) were introduced after the biscuit was baked, from the raw flour in the bakery.

I understand this was not done....but my 1st thought was to keep the weevils at bay, crate or barrel the biscuits, remove a bung (to vent any moisture), reheat to say 200 for 8 hours, replace bung while they were still hot.

Sorry I know it is ff but ya all got me thinking of all the book & movies where they were tapping the weevils out. Odd to think no one tried this until you remember Louis Pasteur came up with his Idea in 1864

Don't you know, in the service one always chooses the lesser of two weevils.......

Also slightly off topic but germaine to the discussion at hand, (The G** D***** Germans got nothing to do with this), is nomenclature. I found and posted in another thread a while ago a reference in Great Britain of a very rough woven wool fabric they called cotton. The effort in attempting to know what the people of whichever era we're representing called things helps us understand and reproduce those items better.
Oh and the OP wanted to know how to make hard tack/sea biscuits, good to know what they were made of. :wink:
:grin:

 

[Ringel05]

Oops, double post.

 

[tenngun]

This whole thing was fun. Although reading the corn hard tact post my fist impresion was maize hard tact. Re reading convinced me the second posting of corn was flour :idunno: . So often it becomes confusing reading old works and misinturpiting what was written since we have changed the meaning of the word. "That that is sold in a shambles is good to eat"...St Paul. Shambles being the word for butcher shop.
By the by in old latin G was prononced with a k sound, so thats why in German k was used in place of G or c, Thus Gaul and celt....Kaul and Kelt. Today we say Gius Julius Ceaser would have said his name as Kius Iulius Keaser, So the imperior of Germany was Kiser.