Have you defarbed your percussion revolver?

[GomezMunoz1951]

I bought the Uberti 1858 Remington .44 this way by former owner back in 1973. Haven't done anything to it externally. Had to replace hammer and trigger when they wore down so it wouldn't go to full cock. Still has a hair trigger. After 50 years of shooting it has a nice worn look... I have never seen a gun with real bone grips and have never found anyone who makes them.

 

[bigted]

Seems much about nuttin.

Ya pays yore money and takes yer chances.

I say it ain't my biznes whether ya scrub all a markin offin yer gun. Ain't no skin offa me one way or tother.

If you want it still new in box or looks like it is one hundred years old is totally up to you.

Just because I have an opinion about something don't mean that I need to be jumping on a soap box and try to garner support for my particular outlook.

Likewise me trying to agree or disagree with another's outlook makes no cents atoll. Strip it or polish it new makes no difference to me. And furthermore, thinking that sometimes folks gets kinda worked up in their opinions ..
Kinda like we have here.

 

[JBrandon]

I completely understand that people like different looks on their guns, including not having lots of modern markings, or not looking bright new. I also agree that most defarbing is not intended to be deceptive, and that real expert examination will often reveal age of a gun, including many intentional fakes.
BUT - I'm always interested in the history of a gun and the larger history of which it is a part. How often do we hear "if only it could talk"? I wish Private Smith had taken off the grips and written on them his name and the battles he served in. Almost nobody did, so we get oral stories passed down, sometimes true, sometimes a percussion Enfield 'used when my ancestor was at Valley Forge." The markings on my unmentionables tell me when they were made, whether they could have served in WWI etc. Things like the Colt factory letters that document part of the history of a particular gun are highly valued! I wish modern makers would hide things and not put big ugly warnings on barrels but the marks on my "1803" Harpers Ferry that tell me it was made by Zoli in 1975 are part of the gun's history, and reflect the history of the revival of black powder firearms in our time. I don't think you should erase that.
And guns last generations, even hundreds of years. It may not be so easy to figure out fakes, antiquing, defarbing, period repairs etc 100 yrs on. And there is plenty of deception in the market today. Just because 'the real expert' won't be fooled doesn't mean it does not pollute the historic record of guns.
One example of the opinion of others: Poyer, Joe, and Craig Riesch 2006 The .45-70 Springfield, 4th ed. North Cape Publications, Tustin. “the fake .45-70 Springfield Carbine has been the scourge of the beginning collector for more than 60 years.” page 1

 

[mjpchief]

Billboards and warnings on firearms was caused by lawyers back in the 1970’s. When the “billboards were first out on firearms everybody had a come-a-part over all the extra writing on gun barrels. Wasn’t needed and has not prevented anything from happening with said firearms. The world started going to heck in a handbag when they started letting lawyers advertise.

 

[Stantheman86]

The problem with "DeFarbing" IMO is, trying to make something new look old,
When the musket, revolver sword, whatever was issued, IT WAS NEW

For how long ? Anyone who's been in the military knows that weapons stay "new" in the hands of Joe for about 3 days lol

 

[springfield art]

"Do people remove all the markings from their vehicles, i.e., GMC on the front grill and tailgate? Would make as much sense as defarbing."




Back in the 1950's and 60's that was one of the first thing hod rodders did to their vehicles. Removed them, filled the holes and blended it all out. Guilty of that myself. It was our way of changing the appearance of something to conform with our own sense of esthetics. I feel defarbing of guns is just another way of changing the appearance of something we own to look the way we want it. I think the majority of people defarbing/ageing guns are not doing it to claim the gun is actually older than it is, but simply revising the finish to look the way they want it. Are some people going to do it for misrepresentation? these people are in the minority and more than likely not forum members. If people are going to be upset because I put a 327 with 3 dueces and a cam in it under the hood of my externally stock 29 tudor and accuse me of misrepresenting the genre of antique vehicles, that's too bad. THERE ARE ALWAYS people that are going to find something wrong with whatever it is we do and always have good solid reasons for telling us that we shouldn't be doing that. I'm building a precision muzzle loader for long range shooting, chassis type stock, high power scope, extra long barrel false muzzle etc. There are people who will tell me that's wrong, not in the spirit of black powder shooting etc. Think I care? No because this is my way of expressing myself. That's all revising the appearance/defarbing of a gun really amounts to, expressing our desire to have something we own meet our personal requirements of appearances.

Was called "Nosing and Decking"!

 

[springfield art]

Billboards and warnings on firearms was caused by lawyers back in the 1970’s. When the “billboards were first out on firearms everybody had a come-a-part over all the extra writing on gun barrels. Wasn’t needed and has not prevented anything from happening with said firearms. The world started going to heck in a handbag when they started letting lawyers advertise.

All started back in the early '90's or late '80's, Ruger was sued; was a huge two page spread in the New York Times about the case. Gun company lawyers even dictate trigger pull weight on modern handguns. "We don't want to be sued!"

 

[Stantheman86]

"Either you get it or you don't",

Should folks defarb originals where the maker put his name on top of the rifle barrel?, makes as much sense?

Apparently you don't get it then , there is 0 comparison between removing a rifle makers name and removing legal "don't sue us if you stuff this full of Trail Boss " billboards

 

[Cornbread]

I recently did a defarb of a defarb on my Spiller and Burr originally from Lodgewood. It was artificially aged but didn’t look right to me.

Besides, the opening for cap removal/addition was TOO small. I didn’t know why this was made like that when originals are 3 time the size. I reblued w/some brown added the metal and have some streaks to simulate the “twist” in the iron used for cylinders.

Regards,
James

 

[jimhallam]

EXACTLY ,

It's not the "serious collector" who is fooled, but the person WITHOUT the specialisd knowledge, who pays good money for a bad deal. I just can't see that that is moraly justifiable.

 

[GomezMunoz1951]

Do people remove all the markings from their vehicles, i.e., GMC on the front grill and tailgate? Would make as much sense as defarbing.

My Uncle who is a machinist and metal worker changed the tailgate on his Chevrolet truck to say "Chevrolay".... Does that count LOL

 

[mjpchief]

Changed the letters on our bosses ford tailgate once when the letters were removable. Changed the F and D to read DORF.

My Uncle who is a machinist and metal worker changed the tailgate on his Chevrolet truck to say "Chevrolay".... Does that count LOL

 

[Bob McBride]

There are lots of moral grey areas in regards to restocking original parts with an eye to deceive, or reconverting originals back to flintlock to increase value, etc, of that there is no doubt. There are, also, many custom made bench copies of original guns with no indication to a gullible eye that they are new made except for 'Rice' stamps under the barrel, 'Chambers' marks on the back of the locks, and/or a contemporary maker’s name on top of the barrel (The name is often, and rightly so, done in correct period script). These guns are often aged with the skill of an art forger. I own several restocks done with such skill that if they weren't marked very well by the maker and immortalized on forum posts when they were made they would be thought to be original by a very keen eye indeed. If a gun could fool someone it might be one of those, not some defarbed Pietta or Pedersoli musket with 'Black Powder Only' filed off......

Here's an example of one of my modern made guns that, were it not well known and well marked, might indeed fool someone into thinking it was an original and which might fall into that grey area…

Were I that sort I might save my moral outrage for something like this and leave the guys with the bluing removed from their Uberti Dragoon’s cylinders well enough alone.....

(Eric Kettenburg's Buffalo Runner c2020).

 

[Stantheman86]

Seems much about nuttin.

Ya pays yore money and takes yer chances.

I say it ain't my biznes whether ya scrub all a markin offin yer gun. Ain't no skin offa me one way or tother.

If you want it still new in box or looks like it is one hundred years old is totally up to you.

Just because I have an opinion about something don't mean that I need to be jumping on a soap box and try to garner support for my particular outlook.

Likewise me trying to agree or disagree with another's outlook makes no cents atoll. Strip it or polish it new makes no difference to me. And furthermore, thinking that sometimes folks gets kinda worked up in their opinions ..
Kinda like we have here.

Exactly, what people do with guns they pay for is up to them, enjoy them however you want.

I can see if someone was in here talking about cutting up original muskets or "restoring " a nicely cared for but aged revolver. But these are modern repros. I like to age some of them, leave some alone, maybe I'll have Lodgewood defarb a Remington . I won't shoot an historical original so making a repro look like the real deal is the next best thing

No one here is making "fakes". Like was said one attempt to turn an Italian screw or nipple into a "fake" and the jig is up.

I'd like to have Lodgewood's guy make a Uberti Dragoon into a Tucker & Sherrard just because I'd like to have one.

 

[Stantheman86]

It's not the "serious collector" who is fooled, but the person WITHOUT the specialisd knowledge, who pays good money for a bad deal. I just can't see that that is moraly justifiable.

How many casual buyers are like "let me throw $17,000 at this Griswold & Gunnison "

Maybe back in the 1960s people got burned out of a few 100 bucks with fake "CS capture marks" on a genuine 1860 Army but Confederate stuff is so expensive now it's the domain of High End collectors and investors who know what they're buying or pay for an Appraisal from someone who does

 

[jonathan butcher]

Or $25k+ for an original Walker. What used to be semi- accessible, ie antique guns have largely priced themselves out if most regular folks hands The proof of that is popularity of the reproductions.

How many casual buyers are like "let me throw $17,000 at this Griswold & Gunnison "

Maybe back in the 1960s people got burned out of a few 100 bucks with fake "CS capture marks" on a genuine 1860 Army but Confederate stuff is so expensive now it's the domain of High End collectors and investors who know what they're buying or pay for an Appraisal from someone who does

 

[Newtire]

No, not just one man's opinion, I concur.

Yes, I agree. I have a replica R & S like that.

 

[hrt4me]

Yes, I agree. I have a replica R & S like that.

I have 3 Rogers & Spencer percussion revolvers; one is defarbed (previous owner), one is well aged through honest use, and one is almost NIB!

 

[Stantheman86]

It's a weird market, I picked up 2 original 1861 Springfields for about $1,000 each , I wasn't worried about someone putting the effort in to make a repro into an "aged" fake then sell it for $100 more than an ArmiSport.

There's a "fake" Walker on GunBroker that the seller discloses is a well made fake , probably done by someone decades ago. No one is getting fooled now with the price that stuff like a Walker goes for.

 

[Packrat]

I do agree that the marking on reproduction firearms should be under the loading lever or under the barrel on rifles. Lawyers have way to much influence in our hobby