Have you heard??

[Loyalist Dave]

I can see you have never ran a business? It all boils down to profit. You can't blame a company for their actions if there is no profit or very little profit. If an explosion was the cause how did Dupont survive all their past problems?

Actually I have run businesses, I still do..., I understand how they came to their decision. I simply do not like that fact, as I also understand the larger picture.

Ever heard of Domino sugar? It's a consumable sold in grocery stores?

Did you know that many grocery stores sell this product at ZERO profit?

Did you know that many grocery stores sell this at a LOSS?

IF your argument were 100% valid, then you could not buy sugar at grocery stores, OR you'd be paying a lot more for your sugar, especially would the folks who shop at a corner market. Sugar is NOT essential. Folks will be fine without sugar, AND there are lots of substitutes that work as well as sugar that do earn the grocery stores a profit. Just as black powder is not "essential" and there are lots of substitutes that can work that are profitable....

Hodgdon is linked to this product because they chose to buy it, then they chose to produce it, and then they chose to discontinue it, .... for whatever reason. They could also choose to absorb the loss as well as the grocery store absorbs their losses on sugar, because the loss is eliminated by folks buying their other products. They could choose spend the money, keep a portion of that small town employed, and raise the price..., they did not.

OH and they'd mitigate their profit loss by selling off the remaining plant to Scheutzen...., allow them to deal with the problem.... but there are no plans to do this...so much for the "profit and loss diving decisions argument"...

I simply find fault with that. Others can chose to do otherwise. I've never suggested anyone should emulate my actions on this.

LD

 

[Nameless Hunter]

What's GOEX?

A laxative for your ex?

 

[LME]

Oh goody, another pyrodex verses black powder row

Pyrodex and black powder both produce caustic salts on combustion.
The only known practical solvent for salt that is readily available is water. Hot is even better.
Use that with pyrodex and or BP and your barrel will be fine.
Use anything else and one is risking damage.

Remember, nothing really isolates salts or chemically neutralises them. All we can do is dilute them and wash away or in crystal form hold them in suspension. Unfortunately mineral oil based product do not absorb and hold salt in suspension. It may seem as though they do at first but after a while the salt separates from the oil, absorbs water from air and forms a micro caustic bead.
The only oils and fats that will carry a measure of salts and retain it are animal and vegetable.

I thought I would never see a logical explanation without a bias much less the truth! You have restored my faith in mankind. You know the facts don't lie, lips and pens do.

 

[Treestalker]

Well when the last can of real black powder is gone, and the pyrodex pills are all that's left, I guess we can all sit in our rocking chairs on the porch and take up the manly arts of knitting and embroidery.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Well when the last can of real black powder is gone, and the pyrodex pills are all that's left, I guess we can all sit in our rocking chairs on the porch and take up the manly arts of knitting and embroidery.

Why would pyrodex be left? That is getting shut down as well.

 

[HiDesertHunter]

Pyrodex vs black powder discussion is irrelevant

Brands being cut off include
Hodgdon
IMR
Ramshot
Acccurate
Winchester
Pyrodex
Triple Seven
Blackhorn 209
and GOEX brands

I think you are a bit mistaken here. Only GOEX and Olde Eysnford are affected. Read below from the official statement:

Effective immediately, Hodgdon Powder Company, Inc. has made the decision to cease manufacturing operations at the company’s Camp Minden, Louisiana site while evaluating strategic options for the black powder business.

They do next expect any impact on their other categories or brands as the only location which produced black powder was the Camp Minden factory.

The company hopes to sell the factory and GOEX and Olde Eynsford brands to a company which can continue production. Aaron Oelger, Hodgdon’s Vice President of Sales & Marketing said “black powder shooters are a key and valued group of the outdoor community and we would like to see another brand steward take the GOEX brand forward for this segment of shooters.”

 

[Stykbow]

Does P Dex still come with a pair of pink shorts and a box of hand grenades to light it?

Yes, but that option is only available if the buyer is in NE Kansas.

 

[Michael76]

Funny how History repeats itself , Once again we are relying on Europe for our powder !!! Quickly Lads we must petition the KING and pray the winter will keep those sneaky French and their Savage friends at bay !!!!!

 

[Kansas Kid]

Yes, but that option is only available if the buyer is in NE Kansas.

So you’ve bought some! Excellent.

 

[Okie Hog]

Did you know that many grocery stores sell this product at ZERO profit?

Did you know that many grocery stores sell this at a LOSS?

It's called a "loss leader". The idea is to attract customers to the store.

What is a Loss Leader and Should Your Small Business Use One? - Small Business Trends (smallbiztrends.com)

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Here we go again. P-Dex is the Devil.....my comment.....Baloney......end of comment.

 

[springfield art]

Not quite a rational comparison because I am sure most people drive and refill with much more frequency than they go through black powder, and it's not like the last US manufacturer of gas just announced they are calling it quits.

Regardless it will affect some more than others, and those who 'have' to use real BP will have to adjust to the change and possibly resort to having to buy European powder.

The British and French during the Revolutionary War had no problems using European powder!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

It's called a "loss leader". The idea is to attract customers to the store.

OH RIGHT, 'cause without it people wouldn't shop there...., yeah everybody buys only when they go looking for sugar, and they always buy sugar, and then other stuff.
LD

 

[Archer 756]

Goex cans will be valuable antiques someday.

Already are one can get up 9 dollars a can at gun shows

 

[dave951]

I guess the real question we need to ask ourselves is; what is my experience with Pyrodex or real BP? Folks who know better than to do something will often fib a bit when someone sees it. Your buddy pops up with a rusted bore. If he’s a bit embarrassed that he got lazy and didn’t clean properly then you’ll most likely hear something like “ it must have been X powder because I cleaned it immediately and good”. The reality is that it sat for days without being cleaned or wasn’t thoroughly cleaned. I have no experience with real BP, but I’ve shot Pyro for years. Never had a load fizzle, never seen lost power with age, and never had a bore rust. That is my experience and not what someone told me.

The example I mentioned I was present for the shooting AND cleaning. I've seen others have that same experience. I'm willing to be charitable and look at environmental factors like relative humidity, it does get quite humid in NC in the summer. Past that, no.

Not so. My chrono comparison of a can of Pyrodex bought in 2000 to a new can showed no degradation. Clean your gun and you won't have any problem with corrosion from firing Pyrodex.

For many years i would get a couple dozen neglected muzzleloaders to clean up for deer season. Pyrodex residue is no more corrosive than black powder residue. The residue of either will trash your rifle.

I've been shooting muzzleloaders for a long time and I've never seen real black powder rust a gun like Pyrodex will. It's as bad as corrosive suppository ammo in a non chromed barrel.


But more to the point. Some will defend a garbage product till the cows come home. I've also seen folks say the steak they bought at the Dollar Store to be just as good as a custom cut ribeye.

 

[Stykbow]

The example I mentioned I was present for the shooting AND cleaning. I've seen others have that same experience. I'm willing to be charitable and look at environmental factors like relative humidity, it does get quite humid in NC in the summer. Past that, no.



I've been shooting muzzleloaders for a long time and I've never seen real black powder rust a gun like Pyrodex will. It's as bad as corrosive suppository ammo in a non chromed barrel.


But more to the point. Some will defend a garbage product till the cows come home. I've also seen folks say the steak they bought at the Dollar Store to be just as good as a custom cut ribeye.

I hear you, boss. That just hasn’t been my experience. I’ve been shooting ML’s for roughly 30 years, so I’m not a rookie either. I’m in East Tennessee so the humidity here is horrendous as well. I don’t feel like I’m defending a garbage product anymore than you feel like you’re being an elitist. And for the record, I ain’t buying a steak from the Dollar Store. We can at least agree on that.

 

[dave951]

I hear you, boss. That just hasn’t been my experience. I’ve been shooting ML’s for roughly 30 years, so I’m not a rookie either. I’m in East Tennessee so the humidity here is horrendous as well. I don’t feel like I’m defending a garbage product anymore than you feel like you’re being an elitist. And for the record, I ain’t buying a steak from the Dollar Store. We can at least agree on that.

I'm not being an elitist. My direct experience with Pyrodex since it's invention has on the whole been negative compared to real black powder. Couple that with Goex refusal to support our work in youth shooting to bring new shooters to muzzleloading and the fact they make Pyrodex and I'm doubly against them. Maybe new owners will look on working with youth differently but till then, Goex (as a company) and Pyrodex are garbage to me.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

I hear you, boss. That just hasn’t been my experience. I’ve been shooting ML’s for roughly 30 years, so I’m not a rookie either. I’m in East Tennessee so the humidity here is horrendous as well. I don’t feel like I’m defending a garbage product anymore than you feel like you’re being an elitist. And for the record, I ain’t buying a steak from the Dollar Store. We can at least agree on that.

Whoa! Who doesn't like a Dollar Store steak? That's date night in this part of TN...

 

[Okie Hog]

But more to the point. Some will defend a garbage product till the cows come home. I've also seen folks say the steak they bought at the Dollar Store to be just as good as a custom cut ribeye.

i wouldn't eat a ribeye or anything else from a cow that's fed growth hormones and shot up with antibiotics while standing knee deep in manure at an Amarillo feed lot.

 

[Woody Morgan]

i wouldn't eat a ribeye or anything else from a cow that's fed growth hormones and shot up with antibiotics while standing knee deep in manure at an Amarillo feed lot.

I would and do relatively often.

wm